I Knew that I had Spoken Hard Things

 1 Nephi 16:1 - 6, NC 1 Nephi 5 par. 1

And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold, they said unto me, Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than which we are able to bear. And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked according to the truth, and the righteous have I justified and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day. Wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center. And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth and give heed unto it, that ye might walk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth and say, Thou speakest hard things against us. And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren with all diligence to keep the commandments of the Lord. And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness. Now all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the valley which he called Lemuel.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim, 1 Nefi 5 par. 1

And now it came to pass that after I, Nefi, had made an end of speaking to my brothers, behold, they said unto me, You have declared unto us hard things, more than which we are able to bear.  And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked according to the truth, and the righteous have I justified and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day. Wherefore, the guilty take the truth to be hard, for it cuts them to the very center. And now my brothers, if you were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth and give heed unto it, that you might walk uprightly before Elohim, then you would not murmur because of the truth and say, You speak hard things against us. And it came to pass that I, Nefi, did exhort my brothers with all diligence to keep the mitzvot of yhwh.  And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before yhwh, insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness. Now all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the valley which he called L’mu’el.

Do we have in this exchange between Nephi and his brothers here, proof that Nephi has been sent from God to minister to his brothers?

By virtue of the fact that the message Nephi is delivering causes them pain and anguish, is this an example that God, who loves all of His children on the earth, is stretching out His arm to Nephi's brothers through Nephi?

Repentance is a critical thing. It is the message of the Book of Mormon. It is the greatest message that’s contained within the Book of Isaiah, and it is the message of all the true prophets. The thing that stirs you up to repenting is actually two things: the first thing is to awaken to your awful situation, and the second thing is to arise, and that is to connect with the source which will cure what is wrong with you because we are not self-curing. We are filled with that same shame that came to us in the beginning as a consequence of doing what we were not supposed to be doing. The greatest way in which the adversary keeps us in a state of slumber is to prevent us from looking about and becoming awakened to the awful situation in which we find ourselves. Hugh Nibley commented on more than one occasion that there is nothing quite so terrible as being awakened out of a deep sleep. No one really likes that. When it comes right down to it, unconsciousness is a very good thing, particularly when what you are looking at is what we have here. ("115: Sabbath Day," Denver Snuffer Podcast, Denversnuffer.com, June 07, 2020)

I expressed in the previous post that my inclinations about Nephi's brothers have changed.  I now believe that they were knowledgeable and rational individuals, at least at first.

Is it possible that it is precisely because Nephi's brothers felt rather knowledgeable about doctrine and the law of Moses that they had a difficult time with the message God was sending them through Nephi?

Were they being awakened to the awful situation, by Nephi's words, that the law of Moses would not save them?

How cutting and hard are words that awaken us to a sense that even though we considered ourselves righteous we are really idolatrous because we do not approach God as we ought?

How cutting and hard are words that declare to us that we are solely and ultimately responsible and accountable for our own connection with heaven, especially if we believe or our cultural traditions dictate that there is a physical person or a physical law or something we can merely follow and all will be well with us?

How cutting and hard are words that declare to us that we have a responsibility devolving upon us personally to seek the face of the Lord to know Him (not just know of Him) here in mortality?

How cutting and hard are words that expose our dire situation with respect to justice and judgment based on our present actions here in mortality?

Aren't these principles contained in what Nephi declares to his brothers and to all who would become Nephites and to us as gentiles throughout the two books of Nephi in the Book of Mormon?

Is it possible that the wicked one who seeks to destroy our souls makes the words even more cutting and hard because he reminds of our unworthiness and fills us with shame?

He is the accuser after all.

Satan is a title and means accuser, opponent, and adversary; hence, once he fell, Lucifer became, or in other words was called, Satan, because he accuses others and opposes the Father. I rebuked Peter and called him Satan because he was wrong in opposing the Father’s will for me, and Peter understood and repented. (T&C 157 par. 8)

Doesn't the wicked one work to plant the seed of doubt that being able to have a connection with heaven and being able to come face to face with the Lord is impossible?

Isn't it the wicked one who has taken away light because of tradition?

The glory of God is intelligence, or in other words, light and truth. Light and truth forsake that evil one. Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning, and God having redeemed man from the Fall, man became again, in their infant state, innocent before God. And that wicked one comes and takes away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers. But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth. (D&C 93:36 - 40, T&C 93 par. 11)

Are words that awaken us to a sense of our awful situation because of our cultural and traditional beliefs words that are hard and cutting?

To their credit, temporarily at least, didn't Nephi's brothers respond to this message they found hard to hear?

 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren with all diligence to keep the commandments of the Lord. And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

Is it important to notice that Nephi recorded that his brothers humbled themselves before the Lord and not before Nephi himself?

Does that mean that they were being more obedient to the Lord and approaching Him or were they being more obedient to Nephi and approaching him?

Isn't there a big difference there?

Did Nephi ever encourage his brothers to follow him and be obedient to him?

Is that important to see that Nephi never instructed or invited his brothers to follow him or to be obedient to him?

Do we have other examples in the Book of Mormon of the words of God sent through His true messengers being cutting and hard to hear to peoples who had knowledge but not understanding of the things of God?

What about Abinadi?

And it came to pass that after Abinadi had made an end of these sayings, that he said unto them, Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments? I say unto you, nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil concerning this people. And now ye have said that salvation cometh by the law of Moses. I say unto you that it is expedient that ye should keep the law of Moses as yet; but I say unto you that the time shall come when it shall no more be expedient to keep the law of Moses. And moreover, I say unto you that salvation doth not come by the law alone; and were it not for the atonement which God himself shall make for the sins and iniquities of his people, that they must unavoidably perish, notwithstanding the law of Moses. And now I say unto you that it was expedient that there should be a law given to the children of Israel, yea, even a very strict law. For they were a stiffnecked people, quick to do iniquity and slow to remember the Lord their God. Therefore there was a law given them, yea, a law of performances and of ordinances, a law which they were to observe strictly from day to day, to keep them in remembrance of God and their duty towards him. But behold, I say unto you that all these things were types of things to come. (Mosiah 13: 25 - 31, NC Mosiah 8 par. 1)

Why was Abinadi sent to preach repentance to a people who had knowledge of the law of Moses?

Is it possible that these priests of king Noah and the people of king Noah were strict to observe all of the requirements of the law of Moses?

Was the trust of the people, because of the teachings of the priests of king Noah, in a physical law to save them?

Were the people of king Noah following their leaders?

And now it came to pass that Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon Noah, one of his sons; therefore Noah began to reign in his stead. And he did not walk in the ways of his father; for behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord; yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness. And he laid a tax of one-fifth part of all they possessed: a fifth part of their gold and of their silver, and a fifth part of their ziff, and of their copper, and of their brass, and their iron, and a fifth part of their fatlings, and also a fifth part of all their grain. And all this did he take to support himself, and his wives, and his concubines, and also his priests, and their wives, and their concubines. Thus, he had changed the affairs of the kingdom, for he put down all the priests that had been consecrated by his father and consecrated new ones in their stead, such as were lifted up in the pride of their hearts. Yea, and thus were they supported in their laziness, and in their idolatry, and in their whoredoms by the taxes which king Noah had put upon his people. Thus did the people labor exceedingly to support iniquity. Yea, and they also became idolatrous because they were deceived by the vain and flattering words of the king and priests, for they did speak flattering things unto them.

And it came to pass that king Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings, and he ornamented them with fine work of wood and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copper. And he also built him a spacious palace and a throne in the midst thereof, all of which was of fine wood and was ornamented with gold, and silver, and with precious things. And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass. And the seats which were sat apart for the high priests, which were above all the other seats, he did ornament with pure gold. And he caused a breastwork to be built before them that they might rest their bodies and their arms upon while they should speak lying and vain words to his people. (Mosiah 11:1 - 11, NC Mosiah 7 pars. 1 - 2)

Should we take note of any parallels that king Noah and his priests practiced polygamy and used the moneys they collected from the people to support themselves and their multiple wives, and to build elegant and spacious buildings with all manner of expensive adornments, and the seats of the priests were very comfortable and lifted up above the seats of all of the other people who came to listen to them?

Is it important that the Book of Mormon, for the second time here, points out the abomination it is to have multiple wives as well as concubines?

What was it that Abinadi was teaching that enraged them so?

Yea, even doth not Isaiah say, Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He hath no form nor comeliness, and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men — a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from him. He was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep, have gone astray — we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquities of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment. And who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgressions of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death. Because he had done no evil, neither was any deceit in his mouth; yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief.

When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed; he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied; by his knowledge shall my righteous Servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong — because he hath poured out his soul unto death, and he was numbered with the transgressors, and he bare the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

And now Abinadi said unto them, I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh, he shall be called the Son of God; and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son — the Father because he was conceived by the power of God, and the Son because of the flesh, thus becoming the Father and Son (and they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of Heaven and of earth), and thus the flesh becoming subject to the spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God — suffereth temptation and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

And after all this, and after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, As a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father. And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death, giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men, having ascended into Heaven, having the bowels of mercy, being filled with compassion toward the children of men, standing betwixt them and justice, having broken the bands of death, having taken upon himself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them and satisfied the demands of justice.

And now I say unto you, who shall declare his generation? Behold, I say unto you that when his soul has been made an offering for sin, he shall see his seed. And now what say ye? And who shall be his seed? Behold, I say unto you that whosoever has heard the words of the prophets, yea, all the holy prophets who have prophesied concerning the coming of the Lord, I say unto you that all those who have hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you that these are his seed, or they are heirs of the kingdom of God. For these are they whose sins he hath borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions. And now, are they not his seed? Yea, and are not the prophets, every one that has opened his mouth to prophesy that has not fallen into transgression? (I mean all the holy prophets ever since the world began.) I say unto you that they are his seed. And these are they who have published peace, who have brought good tidings of good, who have published salvation and said unto Zion, Thy God reigneth. And oh how beautiful upon the mountains were their feet. And again, how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those that art still publishing peace. And again, how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those who shall hereafter publish peace, yea, from this time henceforth and for ever!

And behold, I say unto you, this is not all; for oh how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings — that is, the Founder of Peace, yea, even the Lord, who has redeemed his people, yea, him who hath granted salvation unto his people! For were it not for the redemption which he hath made for his people, which was prepared from the foundation of the world, I say unto you, were it not for this, that all mankind must have perished. But behold, the bands of death shall be broken, and the Son reigneth and hath power over the dead; therefore he bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead. And there cometh a resurrection, even a first resurrection, yea, even a resurrection of those that have been, and who are, and who shall be, even until the resurrection of Christ — for so shall he be called. And now the resurrection of all the prophets and all those that have believed in their words (or all those that have kept the commandments of God) shall come forth in the first resurrection; therefore they are the first resurrection. They are raised to dwell with God, who has redeemed them. Thus they have eternal life through Christ, who hath broken the bands of death.

And there are those who have part in the first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having salvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about the restoration of these, and they have a part in the first resurrection or have eternal life, being redeemed by the Lord. And little children also have eternal life.

But behold, and fear, and tremble before God — for ye ought to tremble — for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins, yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have willfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God and would not keep them. These are they that have no part in the first resurrection. Therefore, had ye not ought to tremble? For salvation cometh to none such, for the Lord hath redeemed none such. Yea, neither can the Lord redeem such, for he cannot deny himself; for he cannot deny justice when it hath its claim. (Mosiah 14:1 - 15:27, NC Mosiah 8 pars. 3 - 11)

Is Abinadi teaching the priests of king Noah concerning mercy, justice, and judgement here?

How would the priests of Noah be able to know Christ themselves and be able to believe on Him if they did not have a connection to heaven?

Do the teachings of Abinadi take away the craft of the priests of Noah (their livelihood)?

Do Abinadi's words condemn the practices of king Noah and the priests in what they are doing with the moneys they have collected from the people by pointing out that salvation does not come from such things?

Do the words of Abinadi to the priests of Noah mirror Nephi's words to his brothers?

I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked according to the truth, and the righteous have I justified and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day. Wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center. And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth and give heed unto it, that ye might walk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth and say, Thou speakest hard things against us.

Why would the Lord want those He has sent to preach concerning justice, judgement, and mercy?

Is there any other heavenly knowledge besides justice, judgement, and mercy that can be communicated mortal to mortal?

All men know that they must die. And it is important that we should understand the reasons and causes of our exposure to the vicissitudes of life and of death, and the designs and purposes of God in our coming into the world, our sufferings here, and our departure hence. What is the object of our coming into existence, then dying and falling away, to be here no more? It is but reasonable to suppose that God would reveal something in reference to the matter, and it is a subject we ought to study more than any other. We ought to study it day and night, for the world is ignorant in reference to their true condition and relation. If we have any claim on our Heavenly Father for anything, it is for knowledge on this important subject. Could we read and comprehend all that has been written from the days of Adam, on the relation of man to God and angels in a future state, we should know very little about it. Reading the experience of others, or the revelation given to them, can never give us a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God. Knowledge of these things can only be obtained by experience through the ordinances of God set forth for that purpose. Could you gaze into heaven five minutes, you would know more than you would by reading all that ever was written on the subject...
The Hebrew Church “came unto the spirits of just men made perfect, and unto an innumerable company of angels, unto God the Father of all,11 and to Jesus Christ the Mediator of the new covenant.” What did they learn by coming to the spirits of just men made perfect? Is it written? No. What they learned has not been and could not have been written. What object was gained by this communication with the spirits of the just? It was the established order of the kingdom of God: The keys of power and knowledge were with them to communicate to the Saints. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pgs. 342 - 325)

Does this give us greater understanding of why Jacob declared these words here?

O my beloved brethren, remember my words. Behold, I take off my garments and I shake them before you. I pray the God of my salvation that he view me with his all-searching eye. Wherefore, ye shall know at the last day, when all men shall be judged of their works, that the God of Israel did witness that I shook your iniquities from my soul, and that I stand with brightness before him and am rid of your blood. O my beloved brethren, turn away from your sins. Shake off the chains of him that would bind you fast. Come unto that God who is the Rock of your salvation. Prepare your souls for that glorious day when justice shall be administered unto the righteous, even the day of judgment, that ye may not shrink with awful fear, that ye may not remember your awful guilt in perfectness and be constrained to exclaim, Holy, holy are thy judgments, O Lord God Almighty, but I know my guilt. I transgressed thy law and my transgressions are mine; and the Devil hath obtained me, that I am a prey to his awful misery. But behold, my brethren, is it expedient that I should awake you to an awful reality of these things? Would I harrow up your souls if your minds were pure? Would I be plain unto you, according to the plainness of the truth, if ye were freed from sin? Behold, if ye were holy, I would speak unto you of holiness; but as ye are not holy, and ye look upon me as a teacher, it must needs be expedient that I teach you the consequences of sin.(2 Nephi 9:44 - 48, NC 2 Nephi 6 par. 12)

Is there a pattern demonstrated throughout the Book of Mormon that those who are truly "sent" by God with His words preach justice, judgement, and mercy (repentance) so that those who God is stretching His arm out to have the opportunity to repent?

My present understanding is that there is really only one event in the Book of Mormon record where someone imparted heavenly things to mortals; when Christ came to the Nephites following His resurrection.

By then He was a resurrected being and those who were there had individually obtained faith in Him previous to Him imparting heavenly things to them.

What does it mean to repent really?

In another place Joseph said: "A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will
have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it
needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God." (TPJS, p. 217)
We equate in large measure, repentance, with whatever it is you're doing with your genitals.
Joseph equates redemption and repentance with whatever it is you're doing with your heart and with your mind. The problem we must overcome to obtain salvation is our profound ignorance. And what the gospel offers defies ignorance, subdues it, challenges it, destroys it, and leaves it in the dark. So let's try and search into, and obtain some illumination. ("Be of Good Cheer," Forty Years in Mormonism, Denver Snuffer, 10 September 2013, pg. 3)

When Nephi and Lehi were imprisoned and an army of Lamanites and dissenters came to kill them, did Nephi and Lehi preach anything to those in the prison or were those in the prison required to obtain a connection with heaven themselves?

And it came to pass that they did preach with great power, insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had gone over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did confess their sins, and were baptized unto repentance, and immediately returned to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them the wrongs which they had done. And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did preach unto the Lamanites with such great power and authority, for they had power and authority given unto them that they might speak; and they also had what they should speak given unto them. Therefore, they did speak unto the great astonishment of the Lamanites, to the convincing them, insomuch that there were eight thousand of the Lamanites, who were in the land of Zarahemla and round about, baptized unto repentance, and were convinced of the wickedness of the traditions of their fathers.

And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did proceed from thence to go to the land of Nephi. And it came to pass that they were taken by an army of the Lamanites and cast into prison, yea, even in that same prison in which Ammon and his brethren were cast by the servants of Limhi. And after they had been cast into prison many days without food, behold, they went forth into the prison to take them, that they might slay them. And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi were encircled about as if by fire, even insomuch that they durst not lay their hands upon them for fear lest they should be burned. Nevertheless, Nephi and Lehi were not burned; and they were as standing in the midst of fire and were not burned. And when they saw that they were encircled about with a pillar of fire and that it burned them not, their hearts did take courage, for they saw that the Lamanites durst not lay their hands upon them, neither durst they come near unto them, but stood as if they were struck dumb with amazement.

And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did stand forth and began to speak unto them, saying, Fear not, for behold, it is God that has shown unto you this marvelous thing, in the which is shewn unto you that ye cannot lay your hands on us to slay us. And behold, when they had said these words, the earth shook exceedingly and the walls of the prison did shake as if they were about to tumble to the earth; but behold, they did not fall. And behold, they that were in the prison were Lamanites, and Nephites who were dissenters. And it came to pass that they were overshadowed with a cloud of darkness, and an awful solemn fear came upon them. And it came to pass that there came a voice, as if it were above the cloud of darkness, saying, Repent ye, repent ye, and seek no more to destroy my servants whom I have sent unto you to declare good tidings.

And it came to pass when they heard this voice and beheld that it was not a voice of thunder, neither was it a voice of a great tumultuous noise, but behold, it was a still voice of perfect mildness, as if it had been a whisper, and it did pierce even to the very soul — and notwithstanding the mildness of the voice, behold, the earth shook exceedingly. And the walls of the prison trembled again, as if it were about to tumble to the earth; and behold, the cloud of darkness which had overshadowed them did not disperse. And behold, the voice came again, saying, Repent ye, repent ye, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand; and seek no more to destroy my servants. And it came to pass that the earth shook again, and the walls trembled; and also again the third time the voice came and did speak unto them marvelous words which cannot be uttered by man. And the walls did tremble again, and the earth shook as if it were about to divide asunder.

And it came to pass that the Lamanites could not flee because of the cloud of darkness which did overshadow them; yea, and also, they were immovable because of the fear which did come upon them. Now there was one among them who was a Nephite by birth, who had once belonged to the church of God but had dissented from them. And it came to pass that he turned him about, and behold, he saw through the cloud of darkness the faces of Nephi and Lehi; and behold, they did shine exceedingly, even as the faces of angels. And he beheld that they did lift up their eyes to Heaven, and they were in the attitude as if talking or lifting their voices to some being whom they beheld.

And it came to pass that this man did cry unto the multitude that they might turn and look. And behold, there was power given unto them that they did turn and look; and they did behold the faces of Nephi and Lehi. And they said unto the man, Behold, what do all these things mean? And who is it with whom these men do converse? Now the man’s name was Aminadab. And Aminadab said unto them, They do converse with the angels of God. And it came to pass that the Lamanites said unto him, What shall we do that this cloud of darkness may be removed from overshadowing us? And Aminadab said unto them, You must repent and cry unto the voice, even until ye shall have faith in Christ, which was taught unto you by Alma and Amulek, and by Zeezrom; and when ye shall do this, the cloud of darkness shall be removed from overshadowing you.

And it came to pass that they all did begin to cry unto the voice of him who had shook the earth, yea, they did cry even until the cloud of darkness was dispersed. And it came to pass that when they cast their eyes about and saw that the cloud of darkness was dispersed from overshadowing them, and behold, they saw that they were encircled about (yea, every soul) by a pillar of fire. And Nephi and Lehi were in the midst of them, yea, they were encircled about, yea, they were as if in the midst of a flaming fire, yet it did harm them not, neither did it take hold upon the walls of the prison; and they were filled with that joy which is unspeakable and full of glory. And behold, the holy spirit of God did come down from Heaven and did enter into their hearts, and they were filled as if with fire, and they could speak forth marvelous words. (Helaman 5:17 - 41, NC Helaman 2 pars. 19 - 24)

Do we see here any time that Nephi and Lehi did anything but preach repentance (justice, judgement, and mercy)?

How did those who were in the prison finally come to be able to speak forth marvelous words and be ministered to by angels?

Was it Nephi and Lehi who provided this to them or was it their own individual faith in Christ from crying to the voice they had heard?

Was  there a responsibility for those in the prison with Nephi and Lehi to individually connect with heaven?

Could they have received what they received by following Nephi and Lehi or by being obedient to Nephi and Lehi?

Is this Book of Mormon pattern clear?

Is it hard and cutting to read these words that show us plainly that we must consider ourselves fools as far as our doctrinal knowledge, cultural, religious, and familial traditions, and life experiences go and cast these things off in order to exercise faith in Christ and obtain an individual connection with heaven ourselves?

Would it be important for us to seriously consider the pattern that permeates the Book of Mormon where real servants of God speak hard things?

Is that one measure for knowing if someone really is "sent" from God with His message or if someone is on their own mission of their own will?

Is this one reason that the Prophet Joseph declared the following?

The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves “in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth,” and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 206)

Nephi likes to step on our toes and give us a lot to think about.

A Representation of Things Both Temporal and Spiritual

 1 Nephi 15:31 - 36, NC 1 Nephi 4 par. 6

And they said unto me, Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation? Or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body? Or doth it speak of the things which are temporal? And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation. Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness, they must be cast off also as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining unto righteousness. Wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God to be judged of their works. And if their works have been filthiness, they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy, it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God — if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also. But behold, I say unto you that the kingdom of God is not filthy, that there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore, there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy. And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the Devil is the foundation of it. Wherefore, the final state of the souls of man is to dwell in the kingdom of God or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken. Wherefore, the wicked are separated from the righteous, and also from that tree of life whose fruit is most precious and most desirable of all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 4 par. 6

And they said unto me, Does this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation? Or does it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body? Or does it speak of the things which are temporal? And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yes, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation. Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness, they must be cast off also as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining unto righteousness. Wherefore, they must be brought to stand before Elohim to be judged of their works. And if their works have been tum’ah, they must necessarily be unclean; and if they be unclean, it must necessarily be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of Elohim — if so, the kingdom of Elohim must be unclean also. But behold, I say unto you that the kingdom of Elohim is not unclean, that there cannot any tamé thing enter into the kingdom of Elohim; wherefore, there must necessarily be a place of tum’ah prepared for that which is unclean. And there is a place prepared, yes, even that awful Gehinnom of which I have spoken, and HaSatan is the foundation of it. Wherefore, the final state of the souls of man is to dwell in the kingdom of Elohim or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken. Wherefore, the wicked are separated from the righteous, and also from that tree of life whose fruit is most precious and most desirable of all other fruits; yes, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of Elohim. And thus I spoke unto my brothers. Amen.

As I presently understand it, Nephi is continuing his discussion of judgement and mercy and justice with his brothers by answering their query about the context of when the symbols in the vision will apply to individuals.

Isn't it interesting that Nephi stated that his brothers used the phrases, "body in the days of probation", "the final state of the soul", and "the death of the temporal body"?

Does this show that Nephi's brothers possessed an understanding of things at that time, things that were restored to our knowledge through the Prophet Joseph?

Now, verily I say unto you that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead. And the spirit and the body is the soul of man, and the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul, and the redemption of the soul is through him who quickens all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it. Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the Celestial glory, for after it has filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father, that bodies who are of the Celestial Kingdom may possess it for ever and ever. For, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified. (D&C 88:14 - 20, T&C 86 par. 2)

Is it possible that part of the reason they were asking these questions is that they understood that, following the resurrection, they would be souls; a spirit with a body?

Is this further evidenced by their reference to "the death of the temporal body" and this "body in the days of probation"?

Now behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided, thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption. (Alma 11:45, NC Alma 8 par. 17)

Is it possible that the question Nephi's brothers ask could be interpreted as follows?

Is this mercy, judgement, justice and hell you are speaking of something that is merited and experienced here in this mortal, probationary life or something that pertains to each soul after the resurrection?  Is this something that continues on and on or is it temporary?

Is it possible they understood the following concept revealed by the Lord through the Prophet Joseph?

And now behold, I say unto you, never at any time have I declared from my own mouth that they should return, for where I am they cannot come, for they have no power. But remember that all my judgments are not given unto men, and as the words have gone forth out of my mouth, even so shall they be fulfilled, that the first shall be last and that the last shall be first, in all things whatever I have created by the word of my power, which is the power of my spirit. For by the power of my spirit created I them, yea, all things both spiritual and temporal, firstly spiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work. And again, firstly temporal and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work, speaking unto you that you may naturally understand, but unto myself, my work has no end neither beginning; but it is given unto you that you may understand, because you have asked it of me and are agreed. (D&C 29:29 - 33, T&C 9 par. 9)

The reason I ask such questions is because I wonder if Nephi is pointing out that his brothers possessed what we might consider lofty doctrinal knowledge but it did not bring them understanding of God's mercy, justice, judgement, and hell.

If that is the case, then should I consider myself wise or good because I possess what I might consider lofty doctrinal knowledge?

Suppose, for arguments sake, that I do possess such lofty knowledge, can I have a proper understanding of things based on that knowledge alone?

Please consider the following.

...it is not the depth of your study that matters, but the quality of your connection with heaven that matters. Expounding doctrine is not only insufficient, it is oftentimes a distraction from what matters. We go from unbelief to belief when we learn truth. Not every source, including institutional sources, can be trusted to tell you the truth. Only the light of Christ, followed by the Holy Ghost is a reliable guide to distinguish between unbelief and belief. We go from belief to faith as we take action consistent with belief in truth. Faith is a principle of power. It will lead you to receive angels who still minister to those of a sound mind, not given to flights of fantasy or unstable behavior (Moroni 7: 30). We are brought from faith to knowledge as angels prepare us through their ministry. (Moroni 7: 31; Moroni 7: 25; Alma 32: 23.) Knowledge comes from contact with Jesus Christ. (Ether 3: 19.) This is the knowledge that saves, and nothing else. (John 17: 3.) The idea that knowledge of Christ through His personal appearance to you is now unavailable is an old sectarian notion and is false. (John 14: 23; D&C 130: 3.) ("The Whole Not the Parts," Denversnuffer,com, December 28, 2011)

Do we see in this account that there is a very big difference in the quality of connection with heaven that Nephi has and the quality or rather the lack of quality of connection Nephi's brothers have with heaven?

Has Nephi come into contact with Jesus Christ?

Wouldn't it appear from the phrasing of their question that Nephi's brothers clearly know something about the revelations concerning the spiritual and temporal creations?

Is it possible that they focused on such things and were therefore distracted from what really matters?

Even if they possess such lofty doctrinal knowledge, have Nephi's brothers come into contact with Jesus Christ?

That is the purpose of the Gospel - to give you knowledge. Therefore the way to get knowledge is to

repent. It is to search into, lay hold upon, and obtain for yourself knowledge that saves. Not mere theory.  Not mere recitations of these symbols in the temple endowment. We are not enlightened merely because we understand some symbol in the temple represents these eight items. ‘This symbol represents this, and this stands for that’ is NOT what we must seek. Trivia is not light and truth. Light and truth will exalt you. Trivia can make you prideful. (40 Years in Mormonism Series, "#3 Repentance," Denver Snuffer, pg. 61)

I don't ask these things to heap judgment on Nephi's brothers.

In the past I had envisioned Nephi's brothers as uneducated, stupid, ignorant, lunk heads who were too unintelligent to understand scriptures and other things.  Therefore I believed that I was in a more enlightened and understanding place and not subject to the same pitfalls they fell into.

I'm beginning to believe that Nephi is showing me that I am in the very same situation as his brothers.  I now believe that they were rational individuals who had scriptural knowledge.  

That means for me that if I consider myself to be a rational individual with some scriptural knowledge then I had better watch myself and repent because I am probably close to being on the very same plane if not on the same plane as Nephi's brothers.

Shouldn't this realization cause me to repent?

I hope it does.

Shouldn't I be focused on the quality of my personal connection with heaven over all things?

Again, what is the knowledge that will save me or anyone else for that matter?

Joseph remarked that “A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world.” (TPJS p. 217.) The meaning of “knowledge” is, of course, the key to that statement. For the only “knowledge” which can save is to “know God” for yourself. (See, John 17: 3; D&C 132: 24.) The means of knowing this God is, of course, revelation and His personal ministry. His personal ministry will bring the faithful to the Father, as well. Both the Son and the Father will take their abode with you. (John 14: 18, 23.) This is the knowledge that saves. ("Borrowed Doctrine," Denversnuffer.com, October 29, 2011)

We are the beneficiaries here of a conversation between a person who has come to receive true knowledge, that knowledge that saves, and those who possess doctrinal knowledge but are asking about principles that they can't understand with their doctrinal knowledge.

That begs another question.  Is it possible to truly understand the Godly principles of mercy, justice, judgment, and hell without coming to receive a true knowledge, one that saves an individual?

As Nephi explains that the symbols in their father Lehi's dream pertain to both the temporal and the spiritual, he declares the following.

the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.

How does Nephi's statement above square with Nephi's statement here?

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God, for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do. And notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ until the law shall be fulfilled; for, for this end was the law given. Wherefore, the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments. And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins. Wherefore, we speak concerning the law, that our children may know the deadness of the law; and they, by knowing the deadness of the law, may look forward unto that life which is in Christ, and know for what end the law was given; and after the law is fulfilled in Christ, that they need not harden their hearts against him when the law ought to be done away. (2 Nephi 25:23 - 27, NC 2 Nephi 11 par. 8)

Doesn't Nephi declare here that even after all that we can do (i.e. no matter what we do in works) it is by grace that we are saved?

Wasn't the Law of Moses a law of works?

Isn't Nephi declaring here that they teach their children that salvation is through grace from Jesus Christ and not from their works in complying faithfully with the Law of Moses?

How is it that we are saved by the grace that comes to us from Jesus Christ but yet we are judged according to our works in this temporal body in the days of our probation?

I happen to agree with the answer to the following question.

Do you think you are saved by grace or works?
It is by grace we do the required works to be saved. As explained in Philip. 2:13: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.” As Paul explained in Romans 6:1-2 concerning those who are born again through Christ: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” We must escape sin by the grace of God and then do the works that testify we are in possession of God’s grace. As James explained in James 2:17-20: “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But will thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” If we are saved by the grace of God our works will testify of that grace within us. Without the works of righteousness, put within us by being born again, a new creation of Christ’s, we may claim to have been saved by grace, but it is without proof.("Addressing Christians," Denversnuffer.com, November 10, 2016)

My present understanding is that if I have received Christ's grace in order to save me my works will testify or be proof of my personal possession of His grace.

Will my works be godly works if I am in possession of His saving grace?

Has Christ pointed out what godly works a person will perform if they are in possession of His saving grace?

I believe so.

I presently believe that Christ's Sermon on the Mount and His Sermon to the Nephites at Bountiful contains instructions for anyone who has tasted of His grace concerning the manner of "works" they should perform among their fellowmen.

Yea, blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
And again, blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.
And blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
And blessed are all they who do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled with the holy ghost.
And blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
And blessed are all the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
And blessed are all the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. And blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake, for ye shall have great joy and be exceeding glad, for great shall be your reward in Heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you. (3 Nephi 12:3 - 12, NC 3 Nephi 5 pars. 12 - 19)

King Benjamin also clarifies what must be undertaken in earnest for an individual to retain the grace of Christ or as King Benjamin terms it, a remission of their sins.

And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you — that is, for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God — I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants... this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe to keep the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember and perish not. (Mosiah 4:26 - 30, NC Mosiah 2 par. 6)

My present understanding is that these are godly works that testify that an individual is in possession of the Lord's grace.  These are works of righteousness that are performed imperfectly by flawed individuals existing in this temporal probationary experience.

How big was Nephi's circle of influence?

Was Nephi able to manifest these godly works in his limited circle of influence among his family?

Should that be instructive for me personally?

My present understanding is that every individual on the earth is placed in a position with family, friends, and neighbors where they may manifest these godly works day by day.

We have discussed before that we need to be informed of the negative consequences of our actions in life because we are not sufficiently motivated by the promises the Lord gives to those who work righteousness so lets look at Nephi's words here concerning the other hand.

Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness, they must be cast off also as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining unto righteousness.

What does it mean to be wicked?

The following is a definition of the term "wicked" found in the glossary of gospel terms

At His return, the Lord intends to destroy the wicked. Included in the “wicked” are those who are telestial and, therefore, cannot endure His presence. These are those who worship men instead of God; they reject a true prophet when one is sent to them; they are liars, adulterers, whoremongers, and all who love and make lies (see T&C 69:27). These are those who have taken our Lord’s name in vain, having not authority (see T&C 50:14), and all those who have preached for hire and practiced priestcraft (see 2 Nephi 11:17). It was because of priestcraft that the Jews could not recognize Christ, and therefore they rejected and killed Him (see 2 Nephi 7:1). The false priests always rail against the true ones. In the last days, false prophets will outnumber the true ones (see Mark 6:4). Zion will require that all this wickedness comes to an end.

Do the above items liars, adulterers, whoremongers, etc. pertain to a person's nature?

To rephrase the question, does the above definition spell out character traits or what a person, through their actions, has become as far as their nature is concerned?

Could we say concerning the enemy of all righteousness that it is in his nature to lie?

Is wickedness different than sin?

Could it be said that wickedness is the root of all sin?

How does this relate to the following?

A violation of a commandment. The sins that offend God are not the errors, weaknesses, and foolishness of the past. He is offended when one is forgiven by Him and then returns to the same sin. That shows a lack of gratitude for His forgiveness. Even then, however, there are addictions, compulsions, and weaknesses that people sometimes struggle with for years, even decades. “When the sin is due to some difficulty based on biology, physiology or an inherent weakness that we fight for years to overcome, then His patience with us is far greater than our own. He will help in the fight. He will walk alongside you as you fight. He does not expect you to run faster than you have strength. When, because of age or infirmity, a troubling weakness is at last overcome, He will readily accept your repentance and let you move forward clean, whole and forgiven. That is His ministry — to forgive and make whole.”1 The only one who can forgive sin is Christ. He requires men and women to forgive one another but will Himself determine whose sins He will forgive (see T&C 51:3). He is the only gatekeeper for forgiveness (see 2 Nephi 6:11).2 The Greek word hamartia (ἁμαρτία) defines sin as missing the mark; not hitting the target; a mistake.3 “Sin is waste. It is doing one thing when you should be doing other and better things for which you have the capacity. Hence, there are no innocent idle thoughts. That is why even the righteous must repent, constantly and progressively, since all fall short of their capacity and calling.” ("Sin", Teachings and Commandments, Glossary of terms)

Is it possible that wickedness as Nephi is describing it to his brothers here has to do with what a person has become or what has become their nature or natural tendency?

When Nephi declares that those who die in wickedness are cut off as to things of righteousness with regards to the spiritual life after this temporal probation is he saying to his brothers what Alma stated to the humbled portion of the Zoramites? 

...For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. Yea, behold, the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end. For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. Ye cannot say when ye are brought to that awful crisis that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this, for the same spirit you hearken to obey while living in the flesh shall, upon your death, have the same power to influence you to hearken unto that spirit in the next life. For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance, even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the Devil and he doth seal you his. Therefore, the spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you and hath no place in you, and the Devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. And this I know because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell. Yea, and he has also said that the righteous should sit down in his kingdom to go no more out, but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb. (Alma 34:30 - 36, NC Alma 16 par. 37)

When Alma later spoke to his son Corianton about the term "restoration" was he talking about the very same thing that everything would be restored to individuals following this probation according to what state was "natural" to them (i.e. mercy would be restored to the merciful in nature, etc.)?

Is this why Nephi could declaratively state to his brothers Wherefore, the wicked are separated from the righteous, and also from that tree of life whose fruit is most precious and most desirable of all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.?

This is very sobering to think about.

We have discussed in an earlier post how unbearable it is for a filthy individual to come into the presence of a just, perfect, and holy being.

Nephi is pointing out that that appearance before God to be judged will be one event, because those who are filthy still will shrink before God, that will divide the wicked from the righteous and from the tree of life.

Now we see another way the wicked will be separated from the righteous.

That brings me to questions that I must ask myself.

What spirit do I hearken to?

What is my nature?

Nephi declared that the Devil is the foundation of that hell which is prepared for the wicked.

Does that mean that whatever nature the Devil possesses, lying, adultery, etc. that is what hell or the kingdom of the Devil is built upon?

How miserable is it to dwell in a space where everyone's nature is to lie, commit adultery, exercise priestcraft, etc.?

If I were to die today would I be subject to the spirit of the Devil so that he would have power over me because I have hearkened to obey his spirit (that has become my nature)?

Do my actions have consequences as far as what I become or in other words what nature I am found to possess when I leave this probation?

If I practice or promote the worship of men, priestcraft, taking the name of the Lord in vain having no authority and that becomes part of my nature then what can I expect to have restored to me or what spirit will I hearken to when I leave this probation?

These are scary things to think about.

I give thanks that Nephi was commanded by the spirit to include this discussion with his brothers.  

This discussion of God's mercy, justice, and judgment calls me to repentance.

What Meaneth the River of Water?

 1 Nephi 15:21 - 30, NC 1 Nephi 4 par. 5

And it came to pass that they did speak unto me again, saying, What meaneth this thing which our father saw in a dream? What meaneth the tree which he saw? And I said unto them, It was a representation of the tree of life. And they said unto me, What meaneth the rod of iron which our father saw that led to the tree? And I said unto them that it was the word of God, and that whoso would hearken unto the word of God and would hold fast unto it, they would never perish, neither could the temptations and the fiery darts of the adversary overpower them unto blindness, to lead them away to destruction. Wherefore, I, Nephi, did exhort them to give heed unto the word of the Lord; yea, I did exhort them with all the energies of my soul, and with all the faculty which I possessed, that they would give heed to the word of God and remember to keep his commandments always, in all things. And they said unto me, What meaneth the river of water which our father saw? And I said unto them that the water which my father saw was filthiness; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he beheld not the filthiness of the water. And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf which separateth the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God. And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked. And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous, and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire which ascendeth up unto God for ever and ever and hath no end.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 4 par. 5

And it came to pass that they did speak unto me again, saying, What is the meaning of this thing which our father saw in a dream? What is the meaning of the tree which he saw? And I said unto them, It was a representation of the tree of life. And they said unto me, What is the meaning of the rod of iron which our father saw that led to the tree? And I said unto them that it was the word of Elohim, and that whoever would hearken unto the word of Elohim and would hold fast unto it, they would never perish, neither could the temptations and the fiery darts of the adversary overpower them unto blindness, to lead them away to destruction. Wherefore, I, Nefi, did exhort them to give heed unto the word of yhwh; yes, I did exhort them with all the energies of my soul, and with all the faculty which I possessed, that they would give heed to the word of Elohim and remember to keep his mitzvot always, in all things. And they said unto me, What is the meaning of the river of water which our father saw? And I said unto them that the water which my father saw was tum’ah; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he beheld not the uncleanness of the water. And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf which separates the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the k’doshim of Elohim. And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful Gehinnom which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked. And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of Elohim did also divide the wicked from the righteous, and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire which ascends up unto Elohim for ever and ever and has no end. 

Before discussing the river of water, could I talk a little bit about the fact that Nephi, who saw the very same vision as Lehi, saw the details of a part of the vision clearly while his father did not?

Does this experience give us a glimpse as to how an individual or individuals receive visions and what they are able to interpret from said vision at the first?

If I am reading it correctly, am I correct in understanding that the angel who was with Nephi explained to Nephi what the filthiness of the river of water represented?

If the understanding of the representation of the river was given to Nephi, why wasn't it given to Lehi?

What does that tell us about heavenly messages and the information given in them?

Did the Lord take it upon himself to direct Lehi's attention or to have Lehi's attention directed to the river of water and what it meant while Lehi was having the vision?

Who was in charge of what was communicated during the vision?

Wouldn't it appear from this that Lehi was in charge of what was received?

What does that tell us about the Lord and how he imparts heavenly knowledge?

Please consider the following.

At the time of the First Vision the Lord says to Joseph: “This is my beloved son, hear ye him.” And then you have the Father and the Son, and a pause. “No sooner had I collected myself than,” Joseph writes; he goes on and asks his question. You have the controlling power of the Universe on standby, waiting for Joseph to formulate and ask the question. That ought to tell you something.

“What things?” Christ asks, although He clearly knows. The Lord clearly prefers a dialogue with us. He doesn’t pontificate. He talks, He communicates, He wants it to be… He insists upon prayer for a reason; He’d like to hear from you, because in the process of hearing from you, you expose something to Him and you expose something to yourself about yourself. He almost insists on treating us like we’re equals, even though clearly we’re not, and that ought to tell you something about yourself as well. All of these things are extraordinary revelations that the Lord is giving to us about whom we are and who He is. ("154:Completing God's Image, Part 1", Denver Snuffer Podcast, Denversnuffer.com, February 22, 2022)

Did the Lord pontificate to Lehi while Lehi was experiencing the vision of the tree of life?

Did the Lord respect Lehi's interests in the other parts of the vision that were not specifically tied to the river of water (i.e. so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he beheld not the filthiness of the water.)?

Does this show how meek our Lord is?

Does this show us that the Lord is intimately interested in what we are interested in?

Does this show us that the Lord will not condescend to tell us what questions to ask or what we should be understanding?

If the Lord, who is perfect, is not condescending to tell us what questions to ask and what we should understand then how should we act in any opportunity we may have to teach?

Should we view this as a failure on Lehi's part for not considering the filthiness of the river of water?

I would hope we don't do that.

We have looked before at the necessity of any individual who receives knowledge from heaven by revelation or vision to ponder upon and contemplate what they have received.

We have Nephi's words that he, Nephi, did just that.

 ...And upon these I write the things of my soul and many of the scriptures which are engraven upon the plates of brass. For my soul delighteth in the scriptures, and my heart pondereth them and writeth them for the learning and the profit of my children. Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord, and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard. (2 Nephi 4:13 - 16, NC 2 Nephi 3 par. 6)

Why the necessity for such a course?

Do those who receive revelations and visions from heaven receive instant understanding of what is given to them?

This is what the Lord recently revealed concerning what Joseph and Oliver received in the Kirtland temple.

As this vision closed, the Heavens were again opened to their view, and they saw and beheld, and were endowed with knowledge from the beginning of this creation to the ends thereof. And they were shown unspeakable things from the sealed record of Heaven, which man is not capable of making known, but must be revealed by the Powers of Heaven.  They beheld Michael, the archangel, Gabriel, and Raphael, and divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the end of time, showing in turns their dispensations, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the Powers of their Priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; endowing them with knowledge, even here a little and there a little; holding forth hope for the work God was yet to perform, even the revelation of all things which are to come upon the earth until the return of the Lord in glory with His holy angels — to pour out judgment upon the world, and to reward the righteous.  And they were unable to take it in; therefore, they were commanded to pray and ask to comprehend by the power of the spirit, to bring all things to their remembrance, even the Record of Heaven which would abide in them. Amen and Amen. (T&C 157 pars. 30 - 32)

Did Joseph and Oliver have instant understanding of the glorious things they received in vision at the temple in Kirtland?

How about Joseph Smith's first vision?

Joseph's first vision has been persistently criticized for decades because Joseph, upon recounting his vision at different times during his ministry, gave accounts of his vision that included differing details.

There are those who declare that Joseph in one account only mentioned the Lord and in another account mentioned both the Lord and the Father and in still another account mentioned the presence of many angels and therefore Joseph's accounts cannot be true.  He made them all up.

Is it unreasonable to consider that at different times along the timeframe of Joseph's ministry that following deep and solemn and ponderous thought about what he had received in vision, Joseph shared an ever enlarged understanding of what he had received in the first vision?

Nephi finally put into words on the plates what he received in his glorious vision only after forty years of pondering and contemplation.

How might we have different details and a different understanding expressed by Nephi about what he had received if we had been able to inquire of him along the way during his ministry before the forty years? 

Here is another contemporary example of how pondering upon the things received in vision brings greater understanding and therefore a possible inclusion of additional details that were not at first understood or focused on.

The following is contained in section 161 in the Teachings and Commandments found at scriptures.info for free.  It is an account of the vision of the Lord as He suffered in Gethsemane before His crucifixion.

All the Lord had previously done in His mortal ministry by healing the sick, raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, restoring hearing to the deaf, curing the leper, and ministering relief to others as he taught was but a prelude to what the Lord was now to do on this dark, oppressive night.

As the Lord knelt in prayer, His vicarious suffering began. He was overcome by pain and anguish. He felt within Him, not just the pains of sin, but also the illnesses men suffer as a result of the Fall and their foolish and evil choices. The suffering was long and the challenge difficult. The Lord suffered the afflictions. He was healed from the sickness. He overcame the pains, and patiently bore the infirmities until, finally, he returned to peace of mind and strength of body. It took an act of will and hope for Him to overcome the affliction which had been poured upon Him. He overcame the separation caused by these afflictions and reconciled with His Father. He was at peace with all mankind.

He thought His sufferings were over, but to His astonishment another wave overcame Him. This one was much greater than the first. The Lord, who had been kneeling, fell forward onto His hands at the impact of the pain that was part of a greater, second wave.

This second wave was so much greater than the first that it seemed to entirely overcome the Lord. The Lord was now stricken with physical injuries as well as spiritual affliction. As he suffered anew, His flesh was torn which he healed using the power of the charity within Him. The Lord had such life within Him, such power and virtue within Him, that although he suffered in His flesh, these injuries healed and His flesh restored. His suffering was both body and spirit, and there was anguish of thought, feeling, and soul.

The Lord overcame this second wave of suffering, and again found peace of mind and strength of body; and His heart filled with love despite what he had suffered. Indeed, it was charity or love that allowed Him to overcome. He was at peace with His Father, and with all mankind, but it required another, still greater act of will and charity than the first for Him to do so.

Again, the Lord thought His suffering was over. He stayed on His hands and knees for a moment to collect Himself when another wave of torment burst upon Him. This wave struck Him with such force he fell forward upon His face. He was afflicted by this greater wave. He was then healed, only to then be afflicted again as the waves of torment overflowed. Wave after wave poured out upon Him, with only moments between them. The Lord’s suffering progressed from a lesser to a greater portion of affliction; for as one would be overcome by Him, the next, greater affliction would then be poured out. Each wave of suffering was only preparation for the next, greater wave.

The pains of mortality, disease, injury, and infirmity, together with the sufferings of sin, transgressions, guilt of mind, and unease of soul, the horrors of recognition of the evils men had inflicted upon others, were all poured out upon Him, with confusion and perplexity multiplied upon Him.

He longed for it to be over, and thought it would end long before it finally ended. With each wave he thought it would be the last, but then another came upon Him, and then yet another.

The one beholding this scene was pained by what he saw, and begged for the vision of the Lord’s suffering to end. He could not bear to see his Lord suffering in this manner. The petition was denied and the vision did not end, for the Lord required him to witness it.

The man saw that the Lord pleaded again with the Father that “this cup may pass” from Him. But the Lord was determined to suffer the Father’s will and not His own. Therefore, a final wave came upon Him with such violence as to cut Him at every pore. It seemed for a moment that he was torn apart, and that blood came out of every pore. The Lord writhed in pain upon the ground as this great final torment was poured upon Him.

All virtue was taken from Him. All the great life force in Him was stricken and afflicted. All the light turned to darkness. He was humbled, drained, and left with nothing. It is not possible for a man to bear such pains and live, but with nothing more than will, hope in His Father, and charity toward all men, He emerged from the final wave of torment, knowing he had suffered all this for His Father and His brethren. By His hope and great charity, trusting in the Father, the Lord returned from this dark abyss and found grace again, His heart being filled with love toward the Father and all men. (T&C 161 pars. 2 - 12)

Think about what the Lord revealed here.

What might one ponder upon after seeing the above event?

The account continues.

The witness reflected for many days upon this scene of the Lord’s great suffering. He read many times the account of the Lord’s agony given to Joseph Smith, which reads, Therefore I command you to repent — repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore — how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent. But if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I: which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit and would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink. Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men. [T&C 4:5]
He pondered and asked, Why were there waves of torment? Why did they increase in difficulty? How were they organized as they seemed to fit a pattern?

After long inquiring into the things which he had seen, the Lord, who is patient and merciful and willing to instruct those who call upon Him, again appeared to the man on the 20th of December, 2007. He made known unto him that the waves of torment suffered by the Lord came in pairs which mirrored each other. The first of each wave poured upon the Lord those feelings, regrets, recriminations, and pains felt by those who injured their fellow man. Then followed a second wave, which mirrored the first, but imposed the pains suffered by the victims of the acts committed by those in the first wave. Instead of the pains of those who inflict hurt or harm, it was now the anger, bitterness, and resentments felt by those who suffered these wrongs.

From each wave of suffering, whether as the one afflicting or as the victim of those wrongs, the Lord would overcome the evil feelings associated with these wrongs, and find His heart again filled with peace. This was why, in the vision of the suffering of the Lord, it was in the second waves that there appeared oftentimes to be injuries to His body.

The greater difficulty in these paired waves of torment was always overcoming the suffering of the victim. With these waves the Lord learned to overcome the victims’ resentments, to forgive, and to heal both body and spirit. This was more difficult than overcoming the struggles arising from the one who committed the evil. This is because the one doing evil knows he has done wrong and feels a natural regret when he sees himself aright. The victim, however, always feels it is their right to hold resentment, to judge their persecutor, and to withhold peace and love for their fellow men. The Lord was required to overcome both so that he could succor both.

In the pairing of the waves, the first torment was of the mind and spirit, and the second was torment of mind, spirit, and body.

The Lord experienced all the horror and regret wicked men feel for their crimes when they finally see the truth. He experienced the suffering of their victims whose righteous anger and natural resentment and disappointment must also be shed, and forgiveness given, in order for them to find peace. He overcame them all. He descended below them all. He comprehends it all. And he knows how to bring peace to them all. He knows how to love others whether they are the one who has given offense or the one who is a victim of the offense.

In the final wave, the most brutal, most evil, most heinous sins men inflict upon one another were felt by Him as a victim of the worst men can do. He knew how it felt to wrongly suffer death. He knew what it was like to be a mother holding a child in her arms as they are both killed by those who delight in their suffering. He knew how it was for ambitious men to rid themselves of a rival by conspiracy and murder. He knew what it was to have virtue robbed from the innocent. He knew betrayal, treachery, and abuse in all its worst degrading horror. There was no cruelty, no offense, no evil that mankind has suffered or will suffer that was not put upon Him.

He knew what it is like for men to satisfy their ambition by clothing their hypocrisy in religious garb. He also felt what it was like to be the victim of religious oppression by those who pretend to practice virtue while oppressing others. He knew the hearts of those who would kill Him. Before confronting their condemnation of Him in the flesh, he suffered their torment of mind when they recognized he was the Lord, and then found peace for what they would do by rejecting Him. In this extremity there was madness itself as he mirrored the evil which would destroy Him, and learned how to come to peace with the Father after killing the Son of God, and to love all those involved without restraint and without pretense even before they did these terrible deeds. His suffering, therefore, encompassed all that has happened, all that did happen, and all that would happen in the future. (T&C 161, pars. 15 - 23)

Can we see here how it took long and solemn and ponderous thought for the witness of the Lord's suffering in Gethsemane until additional glorious understanding of the Lord's suffering was revealed to the witness by the power of the Holy Ghost?

If it were possible to know the thoughts and considerations of the witness of the vision of Gethsemane during the almost three years between the receipt of the vision concerning Gethsemane and the revelation that came almost three years later that produced the additional understanding of the Lord's suffering, what differences in the details of the vision might we observe going through the mind of the witness?

Wouldn't that be the case as well for Nephi, Lehi, Joseph and all others who have received heavenly communications?

I believe that Nephi's almost offhanded statement concerning what Lehi captured or rather didn't capture of the river of water tells us much about the Lord and His servants.

Nephi's answer here concerning the river of water, like his answer to the question of the iron rod, is also much more expansive than his answer to the question regarding the tree of life.

Should I consider that this principle of the river of filthy water then ought to be something that I take some time to understand?

Isn't this river of filthy water a negative representation?

Why would God want us to understand something that appears to be so negative?

The Doctrine of Christ requires that we repent and be baptized. This is the sign He asks to demonstrate faith in Him. Faith requires action or it dwindles away and is lost.

 The importance to the Lord that we act on His Doctrine cannot be overstated. Repentance and baptism are directly related to salvation and cannot be left undone. Christ declared His Doctrine in 3 Ne. 11:32-40. 

His Doctrine came from His Father and mentions “baptism” four times. Only the first mention is positive, the three subsequent times it is negative: 

First: “…whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.” 

Second: “And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.” 

Third: “And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.” 

Fourth: “And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.” 

This is a 3 to 1 ratio of negative warning to positive promise. I do not believe the Lord or His Father are negative. This approach is more a reflection on us than on Them. God is extraordinarily positive. But we need the clarity of being told the downside, and to be warned, because, unfortunately, a positive promise does not adequately motivate us. ("Doctrine of Christ", Denver Snuffer, Boise Idaho, September 11, 2016, pg. 1)

Does Nephi's answer reflect on both his brothers and us because Nephi is required to give us the clarity of being told the downside of not holding fast to the rod of iron in order to arrive at the tree of life?

Nephi refers to the river as an awful gulf that separates the wicked from both the tree of life and the saints of God.

What does this mean?

The Lord gave a parable during His mortal sojourn that describes the conditions created by this "gulf"

Truly I say unto you, I will liken you unto the rich man. For there was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus who was laid at his gate, full of sores and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table; moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried of the angels into Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise, Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed so that they who would pass from here to you cannot, neither can they pass to us that would come from there. Then he said, I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, that he may testify unto them lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham said unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham, but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one should rise from the dead. (Luke 16:19 - 31, NC Luke 9 par. 20)

Isn't the term "gulf" used in this parable to describe an impossibly large distance, in some form, between two things such as two individuals?

In the parable the rich man asks Father Abraham to allow Lazarus to come and perform the ordinance of baptism upon him to stop his torments. (i.e. send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.)

Abraham declares to the rich man that there is a gulf, (divide?), which prevents anyone from Abrahams side being able to pass to the other side to minister to anyone on the side where the rich man finds himself after death.  It also prevents anyone from the side where the rich man finds himself from crossing over to Father Abraham.

Is it possible that Nephi is teaching that this "gulf" (divide) makes it impossible for the wicked to partake of the tree of life (i.e. become a member of the family of God) or to be counted among the saints of God?

Nephi goes on to say, "And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked"

So if the filthy river represents both a divide and that awful hell prepared for the wicked how does it work?

How can I avoid this awful hell and the divide?

The Prophet Joseph declared the following concerning hell.

The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know 
that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 310)

and this,

A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into

the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man

is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 357)

I believe Moroni expressed something similar to what Joseph declared in these words.

And now, I speak also concerning those who do not believe in Christ. Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation, behold, when the Lord shall come? Yea, even that great day when the earth shall be rolled together as a scroll and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Yea, in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God, then will ye say that there is no God? Then will ye longer deny the Christ? Or can ye behold the Lamb of God? Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws? Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and a just God under a consciousness of your filthiness before him than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell. For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you. O then, ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord. Cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day. (Mormon 9:1 - 6, NC Mormon 4 par. 6)

Nephi declared that his father Lehi also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous, and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire which ascendeth up unto God for ever and ever and hath no end.

This river of filthy water or in other words this gulf that separates all from God and creates a hell for those who do not rise up exists because of the justice of God.

My present understanding is that the way God is able to establish justice is to be as He is, a perfect and a just and a holy being.

When an imperfect being is confronted by the presence of a perfect and a just and a holy being there wells up in them, as Moroni declared, an unquenchable fire as the imperfect being sees the stark reality of the difference between themself and the perfect, just and holy being.

Just the action of being in the presence of a perfect, just, and holy being causes the imperfect being to shrink and desire to leave or be covered so as not to be in their presence any more.

Alma the younger gives us a glimpse of such an event.

 And it came to pass that I fell to the earth. And it was for the space of three days and three nights that I could not open my mouth, neither had I the use of my limbs. And the angel spake more things unto me which were heard by my brethren, but I did not hear them, for when I heard the words — If thou wilt, be destroyed of thyself; seek no more to destroy the church of God — I was struck with such great fear and amazement, lest perhaps I should be destroyed, that I fell to the earth and I did hear no more. But I was racked with Eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins. Yea, I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell. Yea, I saw that I had rebelled against my God and that I had not kept his holy commandments. Yea, and I had murdered many of his children, or rather led them away unto destruction. Yea, and in fine, so great had been my iniquities that the very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror. Oh, thought I, that I could be banished and become extinct, both soul and body, that I might not be brought to stand in the presence of my God to be judged of my deeds. And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul. (Alma 36:10 - 16, NC Alma 17 par. 3)

In this account, who is judging Alma for his sins and iniquities?

Who is it who is judging us for our misdeeds?

Does God need to accuse us?

The Prophet Joseph said that we are our own condemners; remember?

Is it a principle that when we are called to appear before a perfect and a just and a holy being that we are brought to a remembrance of all of our sins and iniquities, like Alma the younger, and that knowledge creates that awful gulf that separates us from God because we can clearly see the difference between us and God and we cannot bear to be in the presence of a just and a perfect and a holy being?

Would this give us cause to look in a new way at the following?

And I have given unto you another law and commandment, wherefore teach it unto your children: that all men everywhere must repent or they can by no means inherit the kingdom of God; for no unclean thing can dwell there or dwell in his presence, for in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name...(Moses 6:56 - 63, OT Genesis 4 par. 9)

Won't this principle exist forever without end hence what Lehi saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous, and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire which ascendeth up unto God for ever and ever and hath no end?

Being that I am imperfect, heavy laden with sin and iniquity, is there any way for me to escape this gulf?

Don't we have examples of individuals who have been rescued from this gulf?

The following are the words of Ammon, one of the sons of Mosiah, who with his brothers and Alma the younger initially persecuted the church of God and were full of all manner of iniquity and abominations.

Behold, who can glory too much in the Lord? Yea, who can say too much of his great power, and of his mercy, and of his long-suffering towards the children of men? Behold, I say unto you, I cannot say the smallest part which I feel. Who could have supposed that our God would have been so merciful as to have snatched us from our awful, sinful, and polluted state? Behold, we went forth even in wrath with mighty threatenings to destroy his church. Oh then, why did he not consign us to an awful destruction? Yea, why did he not let the sword of his justice fall upon us and doom us to eternal despair? Oh my soul almost, as it were, fleeth at the thought. Behold, he did not exercise his justice upon us, but in his great mercy hath brought us over that everlasting gulf of death and misery, even to the salvation of our souls. And now behold, my brethren, what natural man is there that knoweth these things? I say unto you, there is none that knoweth these things save it be the penitent. Yea, he that repenteth, and exerciseth faith, and bringeth forth good works, and prayeth continually without ceasing, unto such it is given to know the mysteries of God; yea, unto such it shall be given to reveal things which never have been revealed. Yea, and it shall be given unto such to bring thousands of souls to repentance, even as it has been given unto us to bring these our brethren to repentance. (Alma 26:16 - 22, NC Alma 14 par. 18

Ammon is very clear in his praising of the Lord that the Lord in his mercy saw fit, because of their repentance or turning to face Him, to bring them over that everlasting "gulf" of death and misery to the salvation of their souls.

How is it that Christ is able to do such a thing, seeing we are still imperfect beings?

This is what happened to Enos.

Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father, that he was a just man, for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; and blessed be the name of my God for it. And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God before I received a remission of my sins. Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forest, and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life and the joy of the saints sunk deep into my heart; and my soul hungered, and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul. And all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came, I did still raise my voice high, that it reached the heavens. And there came a voice unto me, saying, Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee and thou shalt be Blessed. And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away. And I said, Lord, how is it done? And he said unto me, Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh. Wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole. (Enos 1:1 - 8, NC Enos 1 par. 1)

Because Enos understood the principle of faith in God that God is a God of truth and cannot lie, as soon as Enos heard the voice of God declare that his sins were forgiven because of Enos's faith in Christ his guilt was swept away.

Would it be reasonable to say that Enos was brought across that terrible gulf of death and misery to the salvation of his soul?

Would it now be possible, knowing that God remembered Enos's sins no more, for Enos to stand in the presence of a perfect and a just and a holy being, even God, without shrinking from His presence?

Is it possible that such actions of bringing one across that great and terrible gulf constitute what the scriptures declare of Christ clothing someone in the robes of righteousness?

When someone is clothed their nakedness is covered.

Is it possible that the nakedness that Adam and Eve experienced in the garden of Eden came about because their eyes were opened to see that gulf that existed between them and God; a just, and a perfect, and a holy being?

Is it possible that when someone is clothed in the robes of righteousness that when they are brought before a just, and a perfect, and a holy being they are able to see themselves enveloped in Christ's righteousness, not their own nakedness; i.e. Christ has loaned them His righteousness?

From what I have found in the scriptures, every time the term gulf is used it is in conjunction with or related to a conversation about judgement and justice. 

Helaman, the father of Nephi and Lehi, used the term "gulf" as he taught his sons.

O remember, remember, my sons, the words which king Benjamin spake unto his people. Yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world. And remember also the words which Amulek spake unto Zeezrom in the city of Ammonihah, for he said unto him that the Lord surely should come to redeem his people, but that he should not come to redeem them in their sins, but to redeem them from their sins. And he hath power given unto him from the Father to redeem them from their sins because of repentance. Therefore, he hath sent his angels to declare the tidings of the conditions of repentance, which bringeth unto the power of the Redeemer, unto the salvation of their souls. And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation, that when the Devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless woe because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build, they cannot fall. (Helaman 5:9 - 12, NC Helaman 2 par. 17)

Helaman referred to Christ as the way to escape that gulf of misery and endless woe.

Christ declared that through His doctrine we may be made clean or, in other words, brought across that terrible gulf to inherit the kingdom of God.

Behold, verily, verily I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine. And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me — and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the holy ghost beareth record of the Father and me — and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men everywhere to repent and believe in me. And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved, and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. Verily, verily I say unto you that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father. And whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also, and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the holy ghost. And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the holy ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me, for the Father and I and the holy ghost are one. And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things. And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Verily, verily I say unto you that this is my doctrine. And whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establisheth it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil and is not built upon my rock, but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell standeth open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them. Therefore, go forth unto this people and declare the words which I have spoken unto the ends of the earth. (3 Nephi 11:31 - 41, NC 3 Nephi 5 par. 9)

Just how important is this for our day?

Please consider the following vision.

On the 13th of February 2003 I saw the Lord coming in His glory. At first a sign appeared in the heavens, a light emanating from a single point and turning first this way and that. All the world saw it, and men debated over its meaning. At length the light turned upon us and within it was the Lord, showing His glory, with concourses of angels and the hosts of Heaven following in His wake.

And when we saw that it was the Lord we rejoiced and were filled with joy. I turned to my wife and said, Look, it is Christ!, and she said, Yes, it is! And we were filled with joy and peace of mind, for the long awaited day of the Lord had come.

But others were filled with dread. They feared and lamented and wanted the mountains to cover them and hide them from His presence, for he was clothed in red and came in judgment. And Christian ministers knew they had taught falsely and that their faith could not save — and they begged for relief from the Saints.

This caused me to marvel at how this could be. It was given unto me to understand that without the ordinances of salvation through the authorized ministers of the gospel it was not possible for men to shed their sins. And they could not look upon a just and holy Being without being racked with torment and guilt for their sins. And they pled with the Saints to minister to them, but we could not, for we were constrained by the spirit and were forbidden to do so. For this was the day of judgment which the Lord had in His heart, and he was now come to preach His own sermon, clothed in red, and to deliver those who waited on Him and to convict and condemn those who had not.

I write this in my own hand and bear solemn testimony that it is true. Amen. When I had finished recording the foregoing account I replied to the Lord that it was not complete and that I could give a much fuller account. The Lord replied, When the time comes to bear testimony of this, these are the words you shall use. And many other things were told to me that cannot be written. (T&C Section 160)

I believe that we are in a time fast approaching the fulfillment of the above vision.

The above vision reminds me of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

I believe that the above vision will be fulfilled and I desire that many if not all may escape the coming torment by not being able to shed their sins at the Lord's coming in glory.

I would invite all to exercise faith in Christ by coming and partaking of the Doctrine of Christ (bornofwater.org) that they may be carried by Christ's power across that terrible gulf spoken of by Nephi to his brothers concerning the filthy river of water, and be saved in the kingdom of God.

I give thanks that Nephi was commanded to record his answers to his brothers' questions concerning what Lehi had seen in vision.

As always, what has been touched on here is so very little and incomplete and I would invite everyone to seriously look into the matter; calling upon God to open up knowledge to them.