A Representation of Things Both Temporal and Spiritual

 1 Nephi 15:31 - 36, NC 1 Nephi 4 par. 6

And they said unto me, Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation? Or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body? Or doth it speak of the things which are temporal? And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation. Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness, they must be cast off also as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining unto righteousness. Wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God to be judged of their works. And if their works have been filthiness, they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy, it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God — if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also. But behold, I say unto you that the kingdom of God is not filthy, that there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore, there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy. And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the Devil is the foundation of it. Wherefore, the final state of the souls of man is to dwell in the kingdom of God or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken. Wherefore, the wicked are separated from the righteous, and also from that tree of life whose fruit is most precious and most desirable of all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 4 par. 6

And they said unto me, Does this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation? Or does it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body? Or does it speak of the things which are temporal? And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yes, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation. Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness, they must be cast off also as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining unto righteousness. Wherefore, they must be brought to stand before Elohim to be judged of their works. And if their works have been tum’ah, they must necessarily be unclean; and if they be unclean, it must necessarily be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of Elohim — if so, the kingdom of Elohim must be unclean also. But behold, I say unto you that the kingdom of Elohim is not unclean, that there cannot any tamé thing enter into the kingdom of Elohim; wherefore, there must necessarily be a place of tum’ah prepared for that which is unclean. And there is a place prepared, yes, even that awful Gehinnom of which I have spoken, and HaSatan is the foundation of it. Wherefore, the final state of the souls of man is to dwell in the kingdom of Elohim or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken. Wherefore, the wicked are separated from the righteous, and also from that tree of life whose fruit is most precious and most desirable of all other fruits; yes, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of Elohim. And thus I spoke unto my brothers. Amen.

As I presently understand it, Nephi is continuing his discussion of judgement and mercy and justice with his brothers by answering their query about the context of when the symbols in the vision will apply to individuals.

Isn't it interesting that Nephi stated that his brothers used the phrases, "body in the days of probation", "the final state of the soul", and "the death of the temporal body"?

Does this show that Nephi's brothers possessed an understanding of things at that time, things that were restored to our knowledge through the Prophet Joseph?

Now, verily I say unto you that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead. And the spirit and the body is the soul of man, and the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul, and the redemption of the soul is through him who quickens all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it. Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the Celestial glory, for after it has filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father, that bodies who are of the Celestial Kingdom may possess it for ever and ever. For, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified. (D&C 88:14 - 20, T&C 86 par. 2)

Is it possible that part of the reason they were asking these questions is that they understood that, following the resurrection, they would be souls; a spirit with a body?

Is this further evidenced by their reference to "the death of the temporal body" and this "body in the days of probation"?

Now behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided, thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption. (Alma 11:45, NC Alma 8 par. 17)

Is it possible that the question Nephi's brothers ask could be interpreted as follows?

Is this mercy, judgement, justice and hell you are speaking of something that is merited and experienced here in this mortal, probationary life or something that pertains to each soul after the resurrection?  Is this something that continues on and on or is it temporary?

Is it possible they understood the following concept revealed by the Lord through the Prophet Joseph?

And now behold, I say unto you, never at any time have I declared from my own mouth that they should return, for where I am they cannot come, for they have no power. But remember that all my judgments are not given unto men, and as the words have gone forth out of my mouth, even so shall they be fulfilled, that the first shall be last and that the last shall be first, in all things whatever I have created by the word of my power, which is the power of my spirit. For by the power of my spirit created I them, yea, all things both spiritual and temporal, firstly spiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work. And again, firstly temporal and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work, speaking unto you that you may naturally understand, but unto myself, my work has no end neither beginning; but it is given unto you that you may understand, because you have asked it of me and are agreed. (D&C 29:29 - 33, T&C 9 par. 9)

The reason I ask such questions is because I wonder if Nephi is pointing out that his brothers possessed what we might consider lofty doctrinal knowledge but it did not bring them understanding of God's mercy, justice, judgement, and hell.

If that is the case, then should I consider myself wise or good because I possess what I might consider lofty doctrinal knowledge?

Suppose, for arguments sake, that I do possess such lofty knowledge, can I have a proper understanding of things based on that knowledge alone?

Please consider the following.

...it is not the depth of your study that matters, but the quality of your connection with heaven that matters. Expounding doctrine is not only insufficient, it is oftentimes a distraction from what matters. We go from unbelief to belief when we learn truth. Not every source, including institutional sources, can be trusted to tell you the truth. Only the light of Christ, followed by the Holy Ghost is a reliable guide to distinguish between unbelief and belief. We go from belief to faith as we take action consistent with belief in truth. Faith is a principle of power. It will lead you to receive angels who still minister to those of a sound mind, not given to flights of fantasy or unstable behavior (Moroni 7: 30). We are brought from faith to knowledge as angels prepare us through their ministry. (Moroni 7: 31; Moroni 7: 25; Alma 32: 23.) Knowledge comes from contact with Jesus Christ. (Ether 3: 19.) This is the knowledge that saves, and nothing else. (John 17: 3.) The idea that knowledge of Christ through His personal appearance to you is now unavailable is an old sectarian notion and is false. (John 14: 23; D&C 130: 3.) ("The Whole Not the Parts," Denversnuffer,com, December 28, 2011)

Do we see in this account that there is a very big difference in the quality of connection with heaven that Nephi has and the quality or rather the lack of quality of connection Nephi's brothers have with heaven?

Has Nephi come into contact with Jesus Christ?

Wouldn't it appear from the phrasing of their question that Nephi's brothers clearly know something about the revelations concerning the spiritual and temporal creations?

Is it possible that they focused on such things and were therefore distracted from what really matters?

Even if they possess such lofty doctrinal knowledge, have Nephi's brothers come into contact with Jesus Christ?

That is the purpose of the Gospel - to give you knowledge. Therefore the way to get knowledge is to

repent. It is to search into, lay hold upon, and obtain for yourself knowledge that saves. Not mere theory.  Not mere recitations of these symbols in the temple endowment. We are not enlightened merely because we understand some symbol in the temple represents these eight items. ‘This symbol represents this, and this stands for that’ is NOT what we must seek. Trivia is not light and truth. Light and truth will exalt you. Trivia can make you prideful. (40 Years in Mormonism Series, "#3 Repentance," Denver Snuffer, pg. 61)

I don't ask these things to heap judgment on Nephi's brothers.

In the past I had envisioned Nephi's brothers as uneducated, stupid, ignorant, lunk heads who were too unintelligent to understand scriptures and other things.  Therefore I believed that I was in a more enlightened and understanding place and not subject to the same pitfalls they fell into.

I'm beginning to believe that Nephi is showing me that I am in the very same situation as his brothers.  I now believe that they were rational individuals who had scriptural knowledge.  

That means for me that if I consider myself to be a rational individual with some scriptural knowledge then I had better watch myself and repent because I am probably close to being on the very same plane if not on the same plane as Nephi's brothers.

Shouldn't this realization cause me to repent?

I hope it does.

Shouldn't I be focused on the quality of my personal connection with heaven over all things?

Again, what is the knowledge that will save me or anyone else for that matter?

Joseph remarked that “A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world.” (TPJS p. 217.) The meaning of “knowledge” is, of course, the key to that statement. For the only “knowledge” which can save is to “know God” for yourself. (See, John 17: 3; D&C 132: 24.) The means of knowing this God is, of course, revelation and His personal ministry. His personal ministry will bring the faithful to the Father, as well. Both the Son and the Father will take their abode with you. (John 14: 18, 23.) This is the knowledge that saves. ("Borrowed Doctrine," Denversnuffer.com, October 29, 2011)

We are the beneficiaries here of a conversation between a person who has come to receive true knowledge, that knowledge that saves, and those who possess doctrinal knowledge but are asking about principles that they can't understand with their doctrinal knowledge.

That begs another question.  Is it possible to truly understand the Godly principles of mercy, justice, judgment, and hell without coming to receive a true knowledge, one that saves an individual?

As Nephi explains that the symbols in their father Lehi's dream pertain to both the temporal and the spiritual, he declares the following.

the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.

How does Nephi's statement above square with Nephi's statement here?

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God, for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do. And notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ until the law shall be fulfilled; for, for this end was the law given. Wherefore, the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments. And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins. Wherefore, we speak concerning the law, that our children may know the deadness of the law; and they, by knowing the deadness of the law, may look forward unto that life which is in Christ, and know for what end the law was given; and after the law is fulfilled in Christ, that they need not harden their hearts against him when the law ought to be done away. (2 Nephi 25:23 - 27, NC 2 Nephi 11 par. 8)

Doesn't Nephi declare here that even after all that we can do (i.e. no matter what we do in works) it is by grace that we are saved?

Wasn't the Law of Moses a law of works?

Isn't Nephi declaring here that they teach their children that salvation is through grace from Jesus Christ and not from their works in complying faithfully with the Law of Moses?

How is it that we are saved by the grace that comes to us from Jesus Christ but yet we are judged according to our works in this temporal body in the days of our probation?

I happen to agree with the answer to the following question.

Do you think you are saved by grace or works?
It is by grace we do the required works to be saved. As explained in Philip. 2:13: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.” As Paul explained in Romans 6:1-2 concerning those who are born again through Christ: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” We must escape sin by the grace of God and then do the works that testify we are in possession of God’s grace. As James explained in James 2:17-20: “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But will thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” If we are saved by the grace of God our works will testify of that grace within us. Without the works of righteousness, put within us by being born again, a new creation of Christ’s, we may claim to have been saved by grace, but it is without proof.("Addressing Christians," Denversnuffer.com, November 10, 2016)

My present understanding is that if I have received Christ's grace in order to save me my works will testify or be proof of my personal possession of His grace.

Will my works be godly works if I am in possession of His saving grace?

Has Christ pointed out what godly works a person will perform if they are in possession of His saving grace?

I believe so.

I presently believe that Christ's Sermon on the Mount and His Sermon to the Nephites at Bountiful contains instructions for anyone who has tasted of His grace concerning the manner of "works" they should perform among their fellowmen.

Yea, blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
And again, blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.
And blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
And blessed are all they who do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled with the holy ghost.
And blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
And blessed are all the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
And blessed are all the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. And blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake, for ye shall have great joy and be exceeding glad, for great shall be your reward in Heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you. (3 Nephi 12:3 - 12, NC 3 Nephi 5 pars. 12 - 19)

King Benjamin also clarifies what must be undertaken in earnest for an individual to retain the grace of Christ or as King Benjamin terms it, a remission of their sins.

And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you — that is, for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God — I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants... this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe to keep the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember and perish not. (Mosiah 4:26 - 30, NC Mosiah 2 par. 6)

My present understanding is that these are godly works that testify that an individual is in possession of the Lord's grace.  These are works of righteousness that are performed imperfectly by flawed individuals existing in this temporal probationary experience.

How big was Nephi's circle of influence?

Was Nephi able to manifest these godly works in his limited circle of influence among his family?

Should that be instructive for me personally?

My present understanding is that every individual on the earth is placed in a position with family, friends, and neighbors where they may manifest these godly works day by day.

We have discussed before that we need to be informed of the negative consequences of our actions in life because we are not sufficiently motivated by the promises the Lord gives to those who work righteousness so lets look at Nephi's words here concerning the other hand.

Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness, they must be cast off also as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining unto righteousness.

What does it mean to be wicked?

The following is a definition of the term "wicked" found in the glossary of gospel terms

At His return, the Lord intends to destroy the wicked. Included in the “wicked” are those who are telestial and, therefore, cannot endure His presence. These are those who worship men instead of God; they reject a true prophet when one is sent to them; they are liars, adulterers, whoremongers, and all who love and make lies (see T&C 69:27). These are those who have taken our Lord’s name in vain, having not authority (see T&C 50:14), and all those who have preached for hire and practiced priestcraft (see 2 Nephi 11:17). It was because of priestcraft that the Jews could not recognize Christ, and therefore they rejected and killed Him (see 2 Nephi 7:1). The false priests always rail against the true ones. In the last days, false prophets will outnumber the true ones (see Mark 6:4). Zion will require that all this wickedness comes to an end.

Do the above items liars, adulterers, whoremongers, etc. pertain to a person's nature?

To rephrase the question, does the above definition spell out character traits or what a person, through their actions, has become as far as their nature is concerned?

Could we say concerning the enemy of all righteousness that it is in his nature to lie?

Is wickedness different than sin?

Could it be said that wickedness is the root of all sin?

How does this relate to the following?

A violation of a commandment. The sins that offend God are not the errors, weaknesses, and foolishness of the past. He is offended when one is forgiven by Him and then returns to the same sin. That shows a lack of gratitude for His forgiveness. Even then, however, there are addictions, compulsions, and weaknesses that people sometimes struggle with for years, even decades. “When the sin is due to some difficulty based on biology, physiology or an inherent weakness that we fight for years to overcome, then His patience with us is far greater than our own. He will help in the fight. He will walk alongside you as you fight. He does not expect you to run faster than you have strength. When, because of age or infirmity, a troubling weakness is at last overcome, He will readily accept your repentance and let you move forward clean, whole and forgiven. That is His ministry — to forgive and make whole.”1 The only one who can forgive sin is Christ. He requires men and women to forgive one another but will Himself determine whose sins He will forgive (see T&C 51:3). He is the only gatekeeper for forgiveness (see 2 Nephi 6:11).2 The Greek word hamartia (ἁμαρτία) defines sin as missing the mark; not hitting the target; a mistake.3 “Sin is waste. It is doing one thing when you should be doing other and better things for which you have the capacity. Hence, there are no innocent idle thoughts. That is why even the righteous must repent, constantly and progressively, since all fall short of their capacity and calling.” ("Sin", Teachings and Commandments, Glossary of terms)

Is it possible that wickedness as Nephi is describing it to his brothers here has to do with what a person has become or what has become their nature or natural tendency?

When Nephi declares that those who die in wickedness are cut off as to things of righteousness with regards to the spiritual life after this temporal probation is he saying to his brothers what Alma stated to the humbled portion of the Zoramites? 

...For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. Yea, behold, the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end. For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. Ye cannot say when ye are brought to that awful crisis that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this, for the same spirit you hearken to obey while living in the flesh shall, upon your death, have the same power to influence you to hearken unto that spirit in the next life. For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance, even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the Devil and he doth seal you his. Therefore, the spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you and hath no place in you, and the Devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. And this I know because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell. Yea, and he has also said that the righteous should sit down in his kingdom to go no more out, but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb. (Alma 34:30 - 36, NC Alma 16 par. 37)

When Alma later spoke to his son Corianton about the term "restoration" was he talking about the very same thing that everything would be restored to individuals following this probation according to what state was "natural" to them (i.e. mercy would be restored to the merciful in nature, etc.)?

Is this why Nephi could declaratively state to his brothers Wherefore, the wicked are separated from the righteous, and also from that tree of life whose fruit is most precious and most desirable of all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.?

This is very sobering to think about.

We have discussed in an earlier post how unbearable it is for a filthy individual to come into the presence of a just, perfect, and holy being.

Nephi is pointing out that that appearance before God to be judged will be one event, because those who are filthy still will shrink before God, that will divide the wicked from the righteous and from the tree of life.

Now we see another way the wicked will be separated from the righteous.

That brings me to questions that I must ask myself.

What spirit do I hearken to?

What is my nature?

Nephi declared that the Devil is the foundation of that hell which is prepared for the wicked.

Does that mean that whatever nature the Devil possesses, lying, adultery, etc. that is what hell or the kingdom of the Devil is built upon?

How miserable is it to dwell in a space where everyone's nature is to lie, commit adultery, exercise priestcraft, etc.?

If I were to die today would I be subject to the spirit of the Devil so that he would have power over me because I have hearkened to obey his spirit (that has become my nature)?

Do my actions have consequences as far as what I become or in other words what nature I am found to possess when I leave this probation?

If I practice or promote the worship of men, priestcraft, taking the name of the Lord in vain having no authority and that becomes part of my nature then what can I expect to have restored to me or what spirit will I hearken to when I leave this probation?

These are scary things to think about.

I give thanks that Nephi was commanded by the spirit to include this discussion with his brothers.  

This discussion of God's mercy, justice, and judgment calls me to repentance.