Knowest Thou the Condescension of God?

1 Nephi 11:12 - 23, NC 1 Nephi 3 pars. 8 - 9


And it came to pass that he said unto me, Look. And I looked as if to look upon him and I saw him not, for he had gone from before my presence. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth, and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceeding fair and white. And it came to pass that I saw the Heavens open, and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me, Nephi, what beholdest thou? And I said unto him, A virgin most beautiful and fair above all other virgins. And he said unto me, Knowest thou the condescension of God? And I said unto him, I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the Mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the spirit.

And after she had been carried away in the spirit for the space of a time, the angel spake unto me, saying, Look. And I looked and beheld the virgin again bearing a child in her arms. And the angel said unto me, Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father. Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw? And I answered him, saying, Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things. And he spake unto me, saying, Yea, and the most joyous to the soul.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim, 1 Nefi 3 pars. 8 - 9

And it came to pass that he said unto me, Look. And I looked as if to look upon him and I saw him not, for he had gone from before my presence. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city Yerushalayim, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Natzeret, and in the city of Natzeret I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white. And it came to pass that I saw the Heavens open, and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me, Nefi, what do you behold? And I said unto him, A virgin most beautiful and fair above all other virgins. And he said unto me, Do you know the condescension of Elohim? And I said unto him, I know that he loves his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom you see is the Mother of the Son of Elohim, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the spirit.  And after she had been carried away in the spirit for the space of a time, the angel spoke unto me, saying, Look. And I looked and beheld the virgin again bearing a child in her arms. And the angel said unto me, Behold the Lamb of Elohim, yes, even the Son of the Eternal Father. Do you know the meaning of the tree which your father saw? And I answered him, saying, Yes, it is the love of Elohim, which sheds itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things. And he spoke unto me, saying, Yes, and the most joyous to the soul.


In order to share my present understanding of the above, pertaining to Nephi's vision, it seems a little easier to have both paragraphs together to consider instead of just one.

In order to be able to present something that was KABOOM! amazing to me the first time I heard it I have to cover something very important in order to share some context.

When the Nephites were in the promised land they began to try and justify themselves in committing adultery through wresting the scriptures to try and condone the practice of polygamy.

Here are the Lord's words through Jacob concerning the matter.

And now my brethren, I have spoken unto you concerning pride. And those of you which have afflicted your neighbor and persecuted him because ye were proud in your hearts of the things which God hath given you, what say ye of it? Do ye not suppose that such things are abominable unto him who created all flesh? And the one being is as precious in his sight as the other. And all flesh is of the dust. And for the selfsame end hath he created them, that they should keep his commandments and glorify him for ever. And now I make an end of speaking unto you concerning this pride. And were it not that I must speak unto you concerning a grosser crime, my heart would rejoice exceedingly because of you. But the word of God burthens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begins to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms because of the things which are written concerning David, and Solomon his son. Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore, thus saith the Lord: I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. Wherefore, I, the Lord God, will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old. Wherefore, my brethren, hear me and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife, and concubines he shall have none; for I, the Lord God, delighteth in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people. Otherwise, they shall hearken unto these things: for behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands. And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts. For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction. For they shall not commit whoredoms like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts. (Jacob 2:20 - 33, NC Jacob 2 pars. 6 - 8)

According to the revelation to Jacob, having many wives and concubines is an abomination.

The Lord declared that they were to be removed from the wicked practices of them of old.

What was the Lord's command then?

For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife, and concubines he shall have none;

What about this statement by the Lord?

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people.

Did the Lord at any time command a people to practice polygamy?

First, let's look at Adam.

And I, the Lord God, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept. And I took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in the stead thereof. And the rib which I, the Lord God, had taken from man, made I a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This I know now is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man; therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. (Gen. 2:21-25 Moses 3:21-25, OC Genesis 2 par. 14)

What was the understanding of Adam concerning marriage from the beginning?

What does it mean for a man to cleave unto his wife and unto none else?

Do the scriptures anywhere state that a man should cleave unto his wives?

Why would the scriptures be so plain and emphatic about one man and one woman?

How inclusive is this command for mankind?

How about Adam and Eve's children?

And it came to pass that after I, the Lord God, had driven them out, that Adam began to till the earth, and to have dominion over all the beasts of the field, and to eat his bread by the sweat of the brow as I, the Lord, had commanded him. And Eve also, his wife, did labor with him. And Adam knew his wife, and she bore unto him sons and daughters, and they began to multiply and to replenish the earth. And from that time forth, the sons and daughters of Adam began to divide two and two in the land, and to till the land, and to tend flocks; and they also begot sons and daughters. (Moses 5:1-3, OC Genesis 3 par. 1)

What does it mean that they divided two and two in the land?

If they were practicing polygamy wouldn't they be dividing up five and twelve or some other number in the land?

Who was the first recorded person to have two or more wives?

And Cain was shut out from the presence of the Lord, and his wife, and many of his brethren, and dwelled in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he also begot many sons and daughters. And he built a city and he called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch. And unto Enoch was born Irad, and other sons and daughters; and Irad begot Mehujael, and other sons and daughters; and Mehujael begot Methusael, and other sons and daughters; and Methusael begot Lamech. And Lamech took unto himself two wives, the name of one being Adah and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and they were keepers of cattle. And his brother’s name was Jubal, who was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in brass and iron. And the sister of Tubal-Cain was called Naamah. (Gen. 4:16-22
Moses 5:41-46, OC Genesis 3 par. 11)

Shouldn't it be very carefully considered that it was a wicked descendant of Cain who is first recorded to have more than one wife?

How about Abraham and Jacob?

They are used most often to justify polygamy.

Below is a concise explanation of the scriptural history in question with regard to the marriages of the patriarchs.

I still get emails about the marriages of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I got one suggesting the example of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob might justify multiple wife-taking. In response I wrote the following:

Abraham had one wife, Sarah, who was barren.

Sarah wanted a “surrogate” to bear a child for her.The surrogate was not a wife, but a “concubine” for surrogacy.The surrogate bore the child, but did not turn him over to Sarah to raise after weaned. Instead she turned the heart of the child against Sarah.Sarah bore a child, who was unexpected and became the heir.Eventually the surrogate’s son threatened Sarah’s son, and both the surrogate and her son were driven off.Sarah remained the only wife throughout.
The father of Rachel committed fraud to deceive Jacob, resulting in an unwelcome and unintended wife with whom he spent a wedding night that obligated him to keep her as wife.
Jacob overcame the fraud to obtain Rachel, but remained obligated to Leah.
Rachel, his beloved wife, was barren. She also provided a surrogate (concubine) to have a child for her.
Leah bore children, but then ceased to be fertile and also wanted a surrogate (concubine) to bear a child for her.

Isaac had only one wife.

Jacob contracted to wed Rachel.

Jacob intended to have one wife, Rachel. The circumstances produced offspring that were murderously jealous of the son born to the beloved wife. These other siblings conspired to murder Joseph.

There is little lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy in these events and relationships.

D&C 132 was not the revelation Joseph received, and was altered before publication. The original does not exist. We have a purported copy from a store clerk, Joseph Kingsbury, who never acted as scribe for Joseph.

The Nauvoo High Council had the original read to them, and they reported it had nothing to do with modern practice, but was only related to explaining ancient events. ("Old Time Wives' Tales", Denver Snuffer, Denversnuffer.com, May 3, 2019)

I agree with the above.  I do not accept the justification of polygamy using Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Isn't it interesting that the Nephites used David and Solomon's actions to try and justify their desire to practice polygamy instead of Abraham and Jacob?

Did the Nephite's understand what was just stated above concerning Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob so they had to look to the actions of Solomon and David to try and justify themselves?

This is a very short explanation of my understanding of the abominations of polygamy.

I believe it is an abomination precisely because I believe that marriage ought to be lovely, of good report, and praiseworthy.

I believe that God created, from the beginning, a man and a woman (Their image) because that is where a fullness of joy can abide.

The words “So God created man in his (God’s) own image,” affirm two points:
First, the plurality of God.
Second, that plurality is a couple that includes both a male and a female. Man is
created in God’s image, and that image is a couple: a man and a woman. This is not
figurative language. It is literally describing mankind having two sexes and that is godlike, or
what God’s own “image” is. ("Our Divine Parents, Denver C Snuffer Jr., pg. 2)

As I understand it, a marriage that resembles Their marriage is the only thing worth preserving into the eternities.

Can it be said concerning your own marriage, that it is not good for the man to be alone? Are the
two of you together, better than what each of you are alone? Is your marriage a source of joy, of
happiness, of contentment, of companionship? The Lord told them to multiply and replenish the
earth. Do you find within your family relationship there is joy, rejoicing and happiness as a
consequence of the environment you and your wife have put together in your home? (40 Years in Mormonism, "#9 Marriage and Family", Denver Snuffer Jr., pg. 282)

Why talk about polygamy, marriage, and the image of God at this point in the Book of Mormon?

It is very important to understand what is right before God in order to see the condescension of God.

What is the very first thing that Nephi is shown after seeing the tree his father, Lehi saw?

Nephi, what beholdest thou? And I said unto him, A virgin most beautiful and fair above all other virgins. And he said unto me, Knowest thou the condescension of God? And I said unto him, I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the Mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.

Remember what the Lord declared to the brother of Jared when the brother of Jared saw His body?

thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood. (Ether 3:6 - 16, NC Ether 1 pars. 12 - 13)

I have mentioned before how we as a little study group believe that every word God gave to Joseph to write in the Book of Mormon He gave them deliberately so that we could come to a clear understanding of things.

What was the deliberate purpose of including these words with respect to Mary in Nephi's vision?

Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the Mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.

Why not just say "Behold, the virgin thou seest is the Mother of the Son of God" and end the detail right there?

Why continue in the detail to say, "after the manner of the flesh."?

Could it be reasonably said that the phrase "after the manner of the flesh" for Mary was equal in meaning to "I shall take upon me flesh and blood" for Christ?

We talked about how, given what the scriptures state, Christ had a physical-spiritual body before He condescended to come and take up a temporal physical body of flesh and blood to perform His work of atonement.

Could it be reasonably said of Mary, also because of what the scriptures state, that She also had a mission to perform that required Her to condescend from a physical-spiritual body and take up a temporal physical body of flesh and blood to be the Mother of the Son of God; bringing Christ into this temporal existence to perform His labor for all His creations?

Why is the description of Mary as follows;  A virgin most beautiful and fair above all other virgins?

Why would Mary be described as beautiful and fair above all other virgins?

What would make Mary most beautiful and fair above all other virgins?

Who was Mary?

The angel who descends to continue the vision with Nephi mentions more than one condescension of God and right after this first mention of God's condescension the vision is almost exclusively about Mary.

I would invite you to consider the following.

I agree with what is shared here.  It is my present understanding of who Mary really is.

Of all the Mother’s “fruit” the most valuable to fallen man is without doubt the Redeemer, Christ Jesus. The account of how Jesus Christ came into the world begins with a virgin and an angel. There is more to this than Christians have noticed. The prophecy relied on to identify the birthplace of Christ in Bethlehem continues with a description of His Mother. It was prophesied that only when “she which travaileth hath brought forth; then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.” Because of the labor and travail of His Mother, the prophesy of Israel returning to God was fulfilled. She made His entry into this world possible. The redemption of the remnant is as much the consequence of Her as of Her Son. What was Mary’s role? Who was she? Is it possible she was “the mother of God” before she came into mortality? These are important questions that ought to be asked. If we can learn the answers they would indeed be glorious...

If God the Father obeys the same commandments He imposes upon His children, then for Him to father a child with any woman other than His Wife would violate His decrees about adultery and chastity. Marian theology is largely absent from Mormonism other than to suggest that because the Father impregnated her she is destined to be added to His eternal harem as an additional spouse. Traditional Mormon teachings have been crudely fixated on the mechanics of Mary’s conception. There is almost no interest in whether she has any pre-earth role with the Father, or whether she was the Mother in Heaven, the Divine Spouse of the Father, who condescended to come to earth to bear Their Only Begotten in the flesh. If She were to be acknowledged in that role, it would require a
complete re-envisioning of Her. It would raise the issues of why or how She, an immortal and exalted God, could return from that exalted state back to mortality to bring our Redeemer and Savior into this world. It would draw a contrast between the Father’s involvement with this creation and the Mother’s.
The Father can, and does, acknowledge others as His. But, unlike the Son who has repeatedly visited this earth, walked upon it, been handled by people, and eaten here, the Father does not come into contact with this earth in its fallen state. The only time the Father had contact with this earth
was before the Fall, in the Paradisiacal setting of Eden—which was a Temple at the time. Whenever there has been contact with the Father thereafter, He has been at a distance from this earth. There is a formality with the Father that does not exist with the Son. For example, the Son has eaten with mortal man while He was immortal, both before His ministry in the flesh64 and after.65 As our Redeemer, He is directly responsible for us and has contact with us to perform His redemptive service. The Father, on the other hand, is different in status, responsibility, glory and dominion. The Son can appear to mortal man without showing His glory or requiring any alteration of the mortal who
beholds Him. To behold the Father, to endure His presence, one must be transfigured. Mortal man cannot behold the Father’s works while mortal, for if you comprehend them you cannot afterward remain mortal in the flesh. 
That is taken from pages 383-387 of Removing the Condemnation, and includes the footnotes.
Like this description of the Son, the same description should apply to His Mother. The Father is the source of glory and likened to the sun. The Mother reflects and shares this glory, and is likened to the moon. She reflects God’s glory, endures within it and is empowered by it. She can participate with Him in all that is done wielding that glory. “Knowledge” is the initiator or force, and “wisdom” is the regulator, guide, apportioner and weaver of that power. If not tempered and guided by wisdom, knowledge can be destructive.  Wisdom makes the prudent adaptations required for order. The Father and Mother are One. But the Mother bridges the gulf between the Throne of the Father and fallen man. She made it possible for the Son of God to enter this fallen world for the salvation of everything in it...

The Book of Mormon gives an extended description of Mary, the Mother of God. In the original translation text the words “mother of God” were used, but was changed by Joseph Smith in 1837 to “mother of the Son of God.” Here is how it reads following that change:
And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white. And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and
stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou? And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins. And he said unto me: Knowest thou the condescension of God? And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the
meaning of all things. And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms. And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw? And I answered him, saying: Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things. And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the most joyous to the soul.

Most who read this passage interpret the “condescension” reference solely as Christ’s. They view it as Christ alone who condescended by being borne of Mary here in mortality. However, when leading up to the angel’s question, “Knowest thou the condescension of God,” the text focuses exclusively on Mary. When the angel clarified the “condescension,” he again focused primarily on Mary and secondarily on Her Son. The angel explained, “Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms. And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!”
Who would you reasonably expect to be the woman chosen before this world was organized to become the mortal Mother of the Lord? Who would you expect Heavenly Father would want to bear His child, if not His Spouse? Together God the Father and Mary can be acknowledged as the Parents of Christ. The scriptures shift the focus of the “condescension” from Christ, to His Mother, and then back to Her Son, “the seed of the woman. ("Our Divine Parents," Denver Snuffer Jr., 2018, pgs. 12 - 18)

Please carefully consider these things.

Please do not just dismiss them out of hand because they are different than what is in the institutional traditions.

Here is light, exceedingly bright. Please, if you do not understand or accept these things right now put them on the shelf and search and ponder other matters and continue to compare what has been shared with what you learn.

Please consider this from Joseph as you consider these things.

When things that are of the greatest importance are passed over by the weak-minded men without even a thought, I want to see truth in all its bearings and hug it to my bosom. I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 374)

What I have copied above is just a tiny part of the talk "Our Divine Parents" that is online for free as a downloadable PDF at Denversnuffer.com

I invite everyone to read the entire talk and get an understanding of just who our Divine Parents are and to what extent they are involved with us down in this fallen world.

They are not distant.

Now I understand, because of these things, why the tree in Lehi's vision was so important.

My present understanding of the tree "the love of God" is that it is a representation of the condescension of God the Father and God the Mother.

God the Father allowed His wife to descend from Her throne above to come down into mortality to bring into this fallen world Their Son to be the Savior.

God the Mother condescended to come.

What kind of love do our Heavenly Parents have for all the children of men to do such a thing?

Their fruit, the fruit of the tree, as I understand it presently, is Christ.

Christ the Redeemer is the "fruit" that is most valuable to fallen man.

What Christ has accomplished makes partaking of salvation possible, which is sweet above all that is sweet.

Christ's works sanctify those who partake until they are white above all that is white.

What has been brought forth through the condescension of God the Father, God the Mother, and God the Son is most joyous to the soul.

Now I understand why Lehi and others who had partaken of the fruit could only beckon to others to come and partake.

It is impossible to transport the fruit brought forth through the condescension of our Heavenly Parents to give it to another.

Everyone who will partake must come forward themselves and approach the tree, our Gods' condescension, in order to partake.

If it is correct to understand the tree as a symbol of our Heavenly Parents, does that make it more meaningful that Lehi saw those who came and fell down before the tree and partook of the fruit?

What would that symbolize?

If it is correct to understand the tree as a symbol of our Heavenly Parents and their condescension, does that make the tree a symbol of something that pertains far beyond this mortal life?

All of this brings up so many questions and so many possibilities.

Isn't that one of the purposes of the scriptures; to bring up questions so that we ponder and ask God for understanding?

Isn't that what Nephi did and taught his brothers that they must do?

As inadequate as this blog is for bringing up these things that are in the Book of Mormon I do sincerely hope that maybe some of the things shared here will inspire inquiry and searching.

I hope that probable skepticism of what is shared in this blog would empower folks to search the scriptures and ask God so that they can come to their own understanding of things and then share their understanding with me.

I can't see anything but good coming from such a transaction of ideas even if they are different.

What an exceedingly marvelous event Nephi is beginning to see in this vision.

As A Man Speaketh With Another

1Nephi 11:8 - 11, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 7


And it came to pass that the spirit said unto me, Look. And I looked and beheld a tree, and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty, and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow. And it came to pass after I had seen the tree, I said unto the spirit, I behold thou hast shewn unto me the tree which is most precious above all. And he said unto me, What desireth thou? And I said unto him, To know the interpretation thereof — for I spake unto him as a man speaketh, for I beheld that he was in the form of a man. Yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.


The Stick of Joseph, 1 Nefi 3 par. 7

And it came to pass that the spirit said unto me, Look. And I looked and beheld a tree, and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yes, exceeding of
all beauty, and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow. And it came to pass after I had seen the tree, I said unto the spirit, I behold you have shown unto me the tree which is most precious above all. And he said unto me, What do you desire? And I said unto him, To know the interpretation thereof — for I spoke unto him as a man speaks, for I beheld that he was in the form of a man.  Yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the spirit of yhwh; and he spoke unto me as a man speaks with another.

After Nephi is shown the symbol of the tree he desires to know what the interpretation of the symbol is.

Based on my present understanding of this event, I believe that much of what is shown to Nephi hereafter in the vision is given to allow Nephi to understand what the symbol of the tree means.

Before moving forward with that could we consider the next statement by Nephi?

Again, I believe that what has been recorded for our view is very deliberate and maybe ought to be looked into.

for I spake unto him as a man speaketh, for I beheld that he was in the form of a man. Yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.

What is the "spirit of the Lord"?

I readily confess I am at a complete loss here because my understanding of the Lord from the Book of Abraham and from the experience of the brother of Jared is that at this time, with Nephi, the Lord has a physical body.

I am asking this following question because I would like some understanding and I truly don't know if it applies.

Is it possible that Nephi's statement that he is conversing with the spirit of the Lord who is in the form of a man is related to what the Lord declared concerning things being created first spiritually and then temporally?

...For by the power of my spirit created I them, yea, all things both spiritual and temporal, firstly spiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work. And again, firstly temporal and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work, speaking unto you that you may naturally understand, but unto myself, my work has no end neither beginning; but it is given unto you that you may understand, because you have asked it of me and are agreed. (D&C 29:32, T&C 9 par. 9)

We know from what Joseph taught that a soul is a spirit and a body united.

We know from the book of Abraham that Christ was in the midst of those who were souls before the creation of this world.

That means that He had a physical body.

Could we rightly say that His body was not temporal even though it was physical?

Before condescending to come to earth wouldn't His body have been animated purely by the spirit; a spiritual body?

Isn't that eternal in nature?

Would that be why the Lord to Joseph specifically differentiated between creating things first spiritually and then temporally instead of saying first spiritually and then physically?

As Nephi is speaking here, is it possible that he is saying that he is speaking with the Lord as one man speaks to another man and that the Lord has a physical body even before His birth; he is in the form of a man?

Is Nephi acknowledging here that at this point he can see that the Lord's physical body is more glorious or different than a temporal body that Nephi is in?

What was the brother of Jared's experience?

And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood. And the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear. And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth, and the Lord said unto him, Arise. Why hast thou fallen? And he saith unto the Lord, I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me, for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood. And the Lord said unto him, Because of thy faith, thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood. And none of those now living have come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast, for were it not so, ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this? And he answered, Nay, Lord. Shew thyself unto me. And the Lord said unto him, Believest thou the words which I shall speak? And he answered, Yea, Lord. I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth and canst not lie.
And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord shewed himself unto him and said, Because thou knowest these things, ye are redeemed from the Fall. Therefore, ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I shew myself unto you. Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life; and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name. And they shall become my sons and my daughters. And to none of those now living whom I created have I appeared, for none have believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image. Behold, this body which ye now behold is the body of my spirit. And man have I created after the body of my spirit. And even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh. (Ether 3:6 - 16, NC Ether 1 pars. 12 - 13)

When the brother of Jared explains what he saw he says "and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood"

Wouldn't this mean that the brother of Jared is seeing a physical body?

Wouldn't it be "like unto" flesh and blood because it was physical but it was not temporal so the Lord explained that the physical body He was appearing in, to the brother of Jared, was His spirit (spiritual) body?

The Lord explained to the brother of Jared that He would come down (condescend) and take upon Himself "flesh and blood" or a temporal body.

The reason I wonder about all of this above is because of Nephi's specific statement that he conversed with the spirit of the Lord as one man speaketh with another.

That wording is familiar and I have seen it several times in the scriptures in relation to individuals speaking about their conversations with the Lord.

Here is Moroni's experience.

And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren, whom I love, until we shall meet before the judgment seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood. And then shall ye know that I have seen Jesus, and that he hath talked with me face to face, and that he told me in plain humility, even as a man telleth another, in mine own language, concerning these things. And only a few have I written because of my weakness in writing. And now I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written, that the grace of God the Father, and also the Lord Jesus Christ, and the holy ghost, which beareth record of them, may be and abide in you for ever. Amen. (Ether 12:38 - 41, NC Ether 5 par. 8)

Here Moroni uses wording very similar to Nephi as he talks about his conversation with the Lord, he declares "he told me in plain humility, even as a man telleth another,".

Isn't this wording equal in meaning to what Nephi expressed?

Another thing that Moroni mentions is that they talked face to face.

Where else can this type of description be found?

Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord face to face, as one man talks with another, and he told me of the works which his hands had made. And he said unto me, My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold, I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon my eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many, and they multiplied before my eyes and I could not see the end thereof. And he said unto me, This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me, Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me, Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me, Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights which were in the firmament of heaven. (Abraham 3:11 - 13, T&C Section 145, The Book of Abraham 5 par. 3)

Abraham also uses the phrasing, as one man talks with another. Also, like Moroni he mentions face to face.

I knew a man in Christ about four years ago who, being overshadowed by the spirit on the 26th of February, 2005, had the Lord appear to him again. And the Lord spoke to him face to face in plain humility, as one man speaks to another, calling him by name. As they spoke the Lord put forth His hand and touched the eyes of the man and said, Look! The man had opened before him a view of the Lord kneeling in prayer. It was in a dark place. The air was heavy and overcast with sorrow. The man beheld the Lord praying in Gethsemene on the night of His betrayal and before His crucifixion. (Teachings and Commandments, Section 161 par. 1)

The above is from the account of another prophet of God Denver Snuffer.

Notice again the same phrasing.

And the Lord spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend.... (Exodus 33:11 - 16, OC Exodus 18 par. 2)

Here we have it again with Moses.

I know that there are many more accounts that emphasize speaking with the Lord face to face as one man speaks with another but the above ought to suffice to demonstrate that there is something compelling that we ought to find out concerning speaking with the Lord face to face as one person speaks with another.

Does this phrasing of words have anything to do with what the prophet Joseph said below?

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of
this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the
remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first
Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after
righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou
shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined
to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it
will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as
is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.
Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses:
“16. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with
you forever;
“17. Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither
knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
“18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. * *
“21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them he it is that loveth me: and he that
loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
“23. If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.”
Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions—Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pages 150 - 151)

As we look at Nephi's account, would it match with one having the second comforter that the prophet Joseph described above?

When these phrasings are recorded in scripture are they put there to bring to our attention that this is the purpose of the gospel of Jesus Christ to bring us to the point in this life where we are able to converse with Him face to face as one man converses with another?

If Nephi was conversing with the Lord here would this constitute the Lord ministering to Nephi?

Would this be a one-time occurrence or would it be from time to time as the prophet Joseph points out?

Were the heavens open to Nephi's view here?

Did Nephi eventually come to have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God?

Are we all to receive and search for such things?

What did the prophet Joseph have to say on the matter?

 I advise all to go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg. 364)

Isn't this what God intended from the beginning?

Two important items are shown from the former quotations: First, after man was created, he was not left without intelligence or understanding, to wander in darkness and spend an existence in ignorance and doubt — on the great and important point which affected his happiness — as to the real fact by whom he was created, or unto whom he was amenable for his conduct. God conversed with him face to face: in his presence he was permitted to stand, and from his own mouth he was permitted to receive instruction — he heard his voice, walked before him, and gazed upon his glory while intelligence burst upon his understanding and enabled him to give names to the vast assemblage of his Maker’s works. (Teachings and Commandments, Section 110, Lectures on Faith, Lecture 2 par. 18)

From the beginning man learned from God face to face.

The following is about the term "Knowledge" in the Glossary of Terms in the Teachings and Commandments.

To have been visited by the Lord. Faith was always intended to grow into knowledge. Knowledge comes from contact with Jesus Christ (see Ether 1:14). This is the knowledge that saves and nothing else (see John 9:18). The idea that knowledge of Christ — through His personal appearance to each person — is now unavailable is an old sectarian notion and is false (see John 9:8). “Knowing God is Christ’s definition of Eternal life and salvation. Joseph Smith clarified this does not mean to learn something about Him. Rather, it is to meet Him. It is to have Him minister to you, face to face, as one man speaks to another.” Since this is life Eternal, to know Him, would it be a simple and plain, but most precious teaching to urge people to part the veil of unbelief and behold their Lord? (see John 9:18).

Is it possible that the phrasing of speaking with the Lord face to face as one man speaks with another is placed in scripture precisely to drive home the point that to do so is necessary for salvation and Eternal life?

Let us here observe that after any portion of the human family are made acquainted with the important fact that there is a God who has created and does uphold all things, the extent of their knowledge, respecting his character and glory, will depend upon their diligence and faithfulness in seeking after him, until like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, they shall obtain faith in God and power with him to behold him face to face. (Teachings and Commandments, Section 110, Lectures on Faith, Lecture 2 par. 55)

Wasn't the brother of Jared informed by the Lord that it was because he had seen the Lord face to face that he had been redeemed from the fall?

And now come, says the Lord by the spirit unto the elders of his church, and let us reason together that you may understand. Let us reason even as a man reasons, one with another, face to face. Now, when a man reasons he is understood of man because he reasons as a man; even so will I the Lord reason with you that you may understand... (D&C 50:10 - 16, T&C 36 par. 3)

Can't we see in the above scripture that the Lord is inviting us to reason together with Him face to face even as a man reasons with another in order that we may understand?

Charity never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they shall fail; whether there are tongues, they shall cease; whether there is knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a mirror, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abides faith, hope, charity — these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (1 Corinthians  13:8 - 13, NC 1 Corinthians 1 par. 53)

Wasn't Paul, speaking from experience, speaking of the ministering of the Second Comforter; "that which is perfect" (Christ) coming?

Before His coming to us personally do we not see through a mirror darkly until we speak with Him face to face and He is able to help us to come to know as we are also known?

If this understanding of what is happening to Nephi is correct then is it important to understand and apply personally the principles Nephi applied to arrive at this point?

Is Nephi's statement here another witness meant for us that this process is real and it is "how great things" the Lord does?

Is the Book of Mormon similar to a parable with meaning upon meaning, upon meaning; sometimes hidden in symbols and easily passed over if we just quickly glance at what is being spoken?

I have passed by these things quickly so many times.  I hope to gain greater personal understanding this time.  I hope to obtain for myself the very same blessings. 

Wouldn't it be a marvelous world if we all obtained these very same blessings?

The Symbol of the Tree

1Nephi 11:8 - 11, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 7


And it came to pass that the spirit said unto me, Look. And I looked and beheld a tree, and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty, and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow. And it came to pass after I had seen the tree, I said unto the spirit, I behold thou hast shewn unto me the tree which is most precious above all. And he said unto me, What desireth thou? And I said unto him, To know the interpretation thereof — for I spake unto him as a man speaketh, for I beheld that he was in the form of a man. Yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.


The Stick of Joseph, 1 Nefi 3 par. 7

And it came to pass that the spirit said unto me, Look. And I looked and beheld a tree, and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yes, exceeding of
all beauty, and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow. And it came to pass after I had seen the tree, I said unto the spirit, I behold you have shown unto me the tree which is most precious above all. And he said unto me, What do you desire? And I said unto him, To know the interpretation thereof — for I spoke unto him as a man speaks, for I beheld that he was in the form of a man.  Yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the spirit of yhwh; and he spoke unto me as a man speaks with another.


This probably sounds pretty trite by now, but I really am curious why Nephi desired to see the tree his father, Lehi, saw and why he was shown the tree and why such a detailed description between both of them of the tree.

Why, with all that Lehi taught, did the tree catch Nephi's interest?

There just seems to me that there is something really significant about this tree.

Nephi records his understanding of the meaning of the tree as he is shown his vision.

And after she had been carried away in the spirit for the space of a time, the angel spake unto me, saying, Look. And I looked and beheld the virgin again bearing a child in her arms. And the angel said unto me, Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father. Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw? And I answered him, saying, Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things. And he spake unto me, saying, Yea, and the most joyous to the soul. (1 Nephi 11:19 - 23, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 9)

I've considered this meaning and I agree with it but what is the meaning of the love of God which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men?

I believe God was very precise with His wording in the Book of Mormon so why does it not say the love of God which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of all the children of men?

Is there a responsibility that devolves upon us for the love of God to shed itself abroad in our hearts?

Could we look at the symbol of the tree for a moment?

Several characteristics of trees come to mind that are characteristics that could easily symbolize sacred things.

Deep rootsMultiplying branches
Exceedingly strong core (trunk)
Nourishing roots
Ability to flex and move with the wind
Bearing fruit
Giving shade and shelter
Providing safety (lodging)
Ability to regrow anew from the stump
New growth growing up

The tree is a powerful symbol.

Genealogically it could be a symbol of the ever-multiplying branches of posterity as well as the huge expanding roots of progenitors coming together to nourish a main present trunk.

After telling me these things he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Old Testament. He first quoted part of the third chapter of Malachi [Mal. 1:6 – 8], and he quoted also the fourth or last chapter of the same prophecy [Mal. 1:9 – 11], though with a little variation from the way it reads in our Bibles. Instead of quoting the first verse as reads in our books, he quoted it thus: For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea and all that do wickedly, shall burn as stubble; for they that cometh shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...(Joseph Smith History 1:36 - 41, Teachings and Commandments, Section 1, Joseph Smith History, Part 3 par. 4)

These words from Malachi seem to represent an end of or cutting off from familial association both from progenitors and posterity (root and branch) for those who are burned at the Lord's coming.

Zenos used the roots of the olive tree to symbolize the promises that God made to the original Fathers, including Adam.

...And the Lord of the vineyard said, Behold, this long time have we nourished this tree, and I have laid up unto myself against the season much fruit. But behold, this time it hath brought forth much fruit, and there is none of it which is good. And behold, there are all kinds of bad fruit, and it profiteth me nothing, notwithstanding all our labor; and now it grieveth me that I should lose this tree. And the Lord of the vineyard said unto the servant, What shall we do unto the tree that I may preserve again good fruit thereof unto mine own self? And the servant said unto his master, Behold, because thou didst graft in the branches of the wild olive tree, they have nourished the roots, that they are alive and they have not perished; wherefore, thou beholdest that they are yet good.
And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard said unto his servant, The tree profiteth me nothing and the roots thereof profiteth me nothing, so long as it shall bring forth evil fruit. Nevertheless, I know that the roots are good, and for mine own purpose I have preserved them. And because of their much strength, they have hitherto brought forth from the wild branches good fruit. But behold, the wild branches have grown and have overran the roots thereof. And because that the wild branches have overcome the roots thereof, it hath brought forth much evil fruit. And because that it hath brought forth so much evil fruit, thou beheldest that it beginneth to perish; and it will soon become ripened, that it may be cast into the fire, except we should do something for it to preserve it. (Jacob 5:31 - 37, NC Jacob 3 pars. 17 - 18)

Jacob used Zenos' allegory of the olive tree to show his people that the promises of God to the original Fathers were what is driving the events of the world throughout history; because God intends to vindicate His original promises; I know that the roots are good, and for mine own purpose I have preserved them.

We can see that Zenos used the symbol of the branches and fruit of the olive tree to represent obedient and humble as well as disobedient and prideful people.

Mother Smith had a dream in which she saw two trees representing two distinct persons.

I thought that I stood in a large and beautiful meadow, which lay a short distance from the house in which we lived, and that everything around me wore an aspect of peculiar pleasantness.  The first thing that attracted my special attention in this magnificent meadow, was a very pure and clear stream of water, which ran through the midst of it; and as I traced this stream, I discovered two trees standing upon its margin, both of which were on the same side of the stream.  These trees were very beautiful, they were well proportioned, and towered with majestic beauty to a great height.  Their branches, which added to their symetry and glory, commenced near the top, and spread themselves in luxurious grandeur around.  I gazed upon them with wonder and admiration; and after beholding them a short time, I saw one of them was surrounded with a bright belt, that shone like burnished gold, but far more brilliantly.  Presently, a gentle breeze passed by, and the tree encircled with this golden zone, bent gracefully before the wind, and waved its beautiful branches in the light air.  As the wind increased, this tree assumed the most lively and animated appearance, and seemed to express in its motions the utmost joy and happiness.  If it had been an intelligent creature, it could not have conveyed, by power of language, the idea of joy and gratitude so perfectly as it did; and even the stream that rolled beneath it, shred, apparently, every sensation felt by the tree, for, as the branches danced over the stream, it would swell gently, then recede again with a motion as soft as the breathing of an infant, but as lively as the dancing of a sunbeam.  The belt also partook of the same influence, and, as it moved in unison with the motion of the stream and of the tree, it increased continually in refulgence and magnitude, until it became exceedingly glorious.

I turned my eyes upon its fellow, which stood opposite; but it was nor surrounded with the belt of light as the former, and it stood erect and fixed as a pillar of marble.  No matter how strong the wind blew over it, not a leaf was stirred, not a bough bent; but obstinately stiff it stood, scorning alike the zephyr's breath, or the power of the mighty storm.

I wondered at what I saw, and said in my heart, What can be the meaning of all this?  And the interpretation given me was, that these personated my husband and his oldest brother, Jesse Smith; that the stubborn and unyielding tree was like Jesse; that the other, more pliant and flexible, was like Joseph, my husband; that the breath of heaven which passed over them, was the pure and undefiled gospel of the Son of God, which gospel Jesse would always resist, but which Joseph, when he was more advanced in life, would hear and receive with his whole heart, and rejoice therein; and unto him would be added intelligence, happiness, glory, and everlasting life. (History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, Lucy Smith, pgs. 43 - 45) 

It is amazing to me that such a symbol of a tree could be used to portray so precisely the personalities of two distinct individuals.

The Prophet Joseph expounded upon the Savior's use of a symbol of a seed growing into a tree.

And again, another parable put He forth unto them, having an allusion to the Kingdom that
should be set up, just previous to or at the time of the harvest, which reads as follows—“The
Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field: which
indeed is the least of all seeds: but, when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh
a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.” Now we can discover
plainly that this figure is given to represent the Church as it shall come forth in the last days.
Behold, the Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto it. Now, what is like unto it?
Let us take the Book of Mormon, which a man took and hid in his field, securing it by his faith,
to spring up in the last days, or in due time; let us behold it coming forth out of the ground, which
is indeed accounted the least of all seeds, but behold it branching forth, yea, even towering, with
lofty branches, and God-like majesty, until it, like the mustard seed, becomes the greatest of all
herbs. And it is truth, and it has sprouted and come forth out of the earth, and righteousness begins
to look down from heaven, and God is sending down His powers, gifts and angels, to lodge in the
branches thereof. (Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 98)

Again, such a simple symbol of an herb growing into a tree; depicting something so glorious that is yet to come about in its fullness where righteousness will look down from heaven and God will send down His powers and angels.

This process stopped after the death of Joseph and Hyrum until God recently began anew with continuing to advance the restoration begun with Joseph; being able to move it forward a step where it had been stopped and neglected before.

What about this symbol of trees from Alma?

...And also the spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying, Go forth and say unto this people, Repent, for except ye repent, ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of Heaven. And again I say unto you, the spirit saith, Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore, every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it. (Alma 5:49 - 52, NC Alma 3 par. 9)

Is what Alma said related to the Lord's use of the symbol of Himself being the true vine?

I am the true vine or head of the Father’s family, and my Father is the husbandman over that family. Every branch connected to me that does not produce fruit, he will remove, and every branch that produces fruit he will prune back so that it produces better fruit. You will bear fruit if you follow the things I have taught you. Stay connected to me as part of the Heavenly family, and I will nourish you. Just as a branch cannot produce fruit if it is not connected to the vine, neither will you be able to bear fruit unless you remain connected with me. I am the vine, and you are the branches. He that stays connected to me, and I to him, will be abundantly fruitful; but without the connection to me you will perish. If a man loses his connection with me, he is merely a withered branch; and men take the withered branches, cut them away and burn them. If you stay connected to me, and my words live in you, you will ask according to my will, and you will be given the ability to accomplish my will. It will please and vindicate my Father if you produce abundant fruit, and that will prove you follow me. Just like the Father has loved me, I have in turn likewise loved you. Therefore, remain connected with me and my love will be with you. If you practice my teachings you will always remain connected with me; just as I have kept my Father’s teachings and have remained connected with him. Teachings and Commandments, Section 171, the Testimony of St. John 10 par. 17)

Isn't it amazing what a symbol can portray and what we are allowed to ponder on and consider when we see a symbol?

Isn't a tree an amazing symbol?

Nephi and Lehi add some characteristics to the tree they saw

Exceedingly white
Fruit Exceedingly white
Fruit desireable to make one happy
Fruit sweet above all other fruit

Is this related to what Alma declared concerning a tree?

Is it possible that Alma was referring to the same tree?

Now we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed — if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the spirit of the Lord — behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts. And when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves, It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding; yea, and it beginneth to be delicious to me. Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, yea. Nevertheless, it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge. But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then ye must needs say that the seed is good, for behold, it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith, for ye will say, I know that this is a good seed, for behold, it sprouteth and beginneth to grow. And now behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness. Therefore, if a seed groweth, it is good; but if it groweth not, behold, it is not good, therefore it is cast away. And now behold, because ye have tried the experiment and planted the seed, and it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.
And now behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant, and this because you know. For ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened and your mind doth begin to expand. Oh then, is not this real? I say unto you, yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light is good, because it is discernible; therefore, ye must know that it is good.
And now behold, after ye have tasted this light, is your knowledge perfect? Behold, I say unto you, nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed, that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good. And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say, Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care, it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit. But if ye neglect the tree and take no thought for its nourishment, behold, it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root, it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out. Now this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable, but it is because your ground is barren and ye will not nourish the tree; therefore, ye cannot have the fruit thereof. And thus it is: if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life. But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith, with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold, it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life. And because of your diligence, and your faith, and your patience with the word, in nourishing it that it may take root in you, behold, by and by, ye shall pluck the fruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure. And ye shall feast upon this fruit, even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst. Then, my brethren, ye shall reap the rewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth fruit unto you.(Alma 32:28 - 43, NC Alma 16 pars.  28 - 30)

Alma describes as the reward for nourishing faith on the word as,

A tree springing up unto everlasting life
Most precious fruit
Fruit sweet above all that is sweet
Fruit white above all that is white

Is it possible that Alma also saw the same tree?

Wouldn't Alma have been in a position to read the words of both Nephi and Lehi concerning the tree?

Alma used the history of the travels of Lehi's group to teach his son Helaman that the Holy Ghost is a Liahona that will lead us to a promised land.

If Alma had pondered on the tree and come up to the same belief as Nephi in the Son of God, isn't it possible that Alma could have received the very same vision as Lehi and Nephi?

If this was the case, what would that mean for us?

Do we have the words of Nephi and Lehi?

Is it possible for us to ponder upon the tree they saw and come up to the same belief in Christ, the Son of God?

Just for argument's sake, let's suppose that Alma is crafting his teaching here after his understanding from seeing the same vision that Nephi and Lehi saw.

If this could possibly be the case, could Alma's teaching be showing us about progression on the path to be able to partake of the tree; to be able to have the love of God shed forth abroad in our hearts?

Is it possible that an expanded meaning of the path and the iron rod and the tree that Lehi and Nephi and possibly Alma saw is that a person comes to the tree along the path and is able to partake of its fruit as a person allows that tree to grow up inside of themself?

I am not saying that this is correct.  I am just wondering if such things could be so.

If one is overtaken by the mists of darkness could that mean that they have failed to nourish the word after it swelled in their hearts?

Could one be commencing in the path if they are allowing a desire to believe on the word to work inside them?

For one to truly be able to beckon, as Lehi did, to another do they already have to have the tree growing up inside themselves and be partaking of the fruit?

What does it mean to beckon in the sense that Lehi beckoned?  Is that different than or more powerful than say sharing or inviting?

Behold, this is your work: to keep my commandments, yea, with all your might, mind, and strength. Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosened. Then, if you desire, you shall have my spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men. But now hold your peace, study my word which has gone forth among the children of men, and also study my word which shall come forth among the children of men, or that which is now translating, yea, until you have obtained all which I shall grant unto the children of men in this generation, and then shall all things be added thereunto. (D&C 11:20 - 22, Teachings and Commandments, Section 1, Joseph Smith History, Part 14 par. 14)

Would obtaining the Lord's word and having the power of God unto the convincing of men have to do with already partaking of the fruit for oneself?

If one is partaking of the fruit or had the tree growing up inside themselves is their natural response a desire to beckon to others?

Did Alma desire to beckon to others?

Oh that I were an angel, and could have the wish of mine heart, that I might go forth and speak with the trump of God, with a voice to shake the earth, and cry repentance unto every people. Yea, I would declare unto every soul, as with the voice of thunder, repentance and the plan of redemption — that they should repent and come unto our God, that there might be no more sorrow upon all the face of the earth. But behold, I am a man, and do sin in my wish, for I ought to be content with the things which the Lord hath allotted unto me. I ought not to harrow up in my desires the firm decree of a just God, for I know that he granteth unto men according to their desire, whether it be unto death or unto life. Yea, I know that he allotteth unto men — yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable — according to their wills, whether they be unto salvation or unto destruction. Yea, and I know that good and evil have come before all men, or he that knoweth not good from evil is blameless, but he that knoweth good and evil, to him it is given according to his desires, whether he desireth good or evil, life or death, joy or remorse of conscience. (Alma 29:1 - 5, NC Alma 15 par. 12)

Are those who have the tree inside themselves connected to the true vine?

Does the Father prune them back so that they can produce better fruit?

What does it mean for the Father to prune back someone who is connected to the true vine so that they bring forth better fruit?

Does that involve the Father requiring a person to sacrifice?

Is it possible that the Savior was pruned back as He performed the atonement?

Was the Savior able to bring forth better fruit following His atonement and resurrection?

Is it possible that partaking of the fruit has to do with the following?

And I have given unto you another law and commandment, wherefore teach it unto your children: that all men everywhere must repent or they can by no means inherit the kingdom of God; for no unclean thing can dwell there or dwell in his presence, for in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name. And the name of his Only Begotten is the Son Ahman, a righteous judge who shall come in the meridian of time. Therefore, I give unto you a commandment to teach these things freely unto your children, saying that by reason of transgression comes the Fall, which fall brings death. And inasmuch as you were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit whom I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so, you must be born again into the kingdom of Heaven of water, and of the spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of my Only Begotten, that you may be sanctified from all sin and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory. For by the water you keep the commandment, by the spirit you are justified, and by the blood you are sanctified. Therefore, it is given to abide in you: the Record of Heaven, the Comforter, the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, the truth of all things, that which quickens all things — which makes alive all things, that which knows all things, and has all power according to Wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment. And now behold, I say unto you, this is the plan of salvation unto all men through the blood of my Only Begotten who shall come in the meridian of time. And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me — both things which are temporal and things which are spiritual, things which are in the heavens above, and things which are on the earth, and things which are in the earth, and things which are under the earth. Both above and beneath, all things bear record of me. (Moses 6:56 - 63, OC Genesis 4:9)

Could the above description describe the walk along the path and the holding to the iron rod that would lead one to the tree?

Would it be sweet above all that is sweet to enjoy the words of eternal life in this life?

What are the words of eternal life?

Who has the words of eternal life?

Could the above be a representation of a connection to the true vine?

Alma speaks of the tree growing up unto everlasting life.

Would that be related to someone experiencing eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory?

Is it possible that the symbol of this tree relates to things beyond this life?

Does the love of God shed forth abroad in someone's heart continue after this life?

Doesn't the above describe a person having abide in them a portion of what Christ possesses?

...Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of Promise, which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the Testimony of John. This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the Celestial Kingdom, which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son, he that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth, which truth shines. This is the light of Christ, as also he is in the sun and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made; as also he is in the moon and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; as also the light of the stars and the power thereof by which they were made; and the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. And the light which now shines, which gives you light, is through him who enlightens your eyes, which is the same light that quickens your understandings, which light proceeds forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space: the light which is in all things, which gives life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sits upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things. D&C 88:1 - 13, Teachings and Commandments 86 par. 1)

If a person who receives such has it given to abide in them the Record of Heaven, the Comforter, the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, the truth of all things, that which quickens all things -- which makes alive all things, that which knows all things, and has all power according to Wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment, doesn't that mean that they have become part of the Family of God a joint heir with Christ and can cry Abba Father?

Could an added meaning of the tree be the meaning of a genealogical connection to the Family of God?

If any of this is true and/or related to the tree that Lehi and Nephi (and possibly Alma?) saw, wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to ponder on the symbolism of that tree?