For it came to pass, after I had desired to know the things that my father had seen, and believing that the Lord was able to make them known unto me, as I sat pondering in mine heart, I was caught away in the spirit of the Lord, yea, into an exceeding high mountain, a mountain which I never had before seen and upon which I never had before sat my foot. And the spirit said unto me, Behold, what desirest thou? And I said, I desire to behold the things which my father saw. And the spirit said unto me, Believest thou that thy father saw the tree of which he hath spoken? And I said, Yea, thou knowest that I believe all the words of my father. And when I had spoken these words, the spirit cried with a loud voice, saying, Hosanna to the Lord, the Most High God, for he is God over all the earth, yea, even above all! And blessed art thou, Nephi, because thou believest in the Son of the Most High God; wherefore, thou shalt behold the things which thou hast desired. And behold, this thing shall be given unto thee for a sign, that after thou hast beheld the tree which bare the fruit of which thy father tasted, thou shalt also behold a man descending out of Heaven, and him shall ye witness. And after ye shall have witnessed him, ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God.
TSJ 1 Nefi 3:6
For it came to pass, after I had desired to know the things that my father had seen, and believing that yhwh was able to make them known unto me, as I sat pondering in my heart, I was caught away in the spirit of yhwh, yes, into an exceedingly high mountain, a mountain which I never had before seen and upon which I never had before set my foot. And the spirit said unto me, Behold, what do you desire? And I said, I desire to behold the things which my father saw. And the spirit said unto me, Do you believe that your father saw the tree of which he has spoken? And I said, Yes, you know that I believe all the words of my father. And when I had spoken these words, the spirit cried with a loud voice, saying, Hoshianna to yhwh, the El Elyon, for he is Elohim over all the earth, yes, even above all! And blessed are you, Nefi, because you believe in the Son of the El Elyon; wherefore, you shall behold the things which you have desired. And behold, this thing shall be given unto you for a sign, that after you have beheld the tree which bears the fruit of which your father tasted, you shall also behold a man descending out of Heaven, and him shall you witness. And after you shall have witnessed him, you shall bear record that it is the Son of Elohim.
Right after Nephi's response to the inquiry of what he desired, the spirit asks the question, "Believest thou that thy father saw the tree of which he hath spoken?"
Why would the spirit ask Nephi that question?
Hasn't Nephi demonstrated by his actions that he believes the words of his father, Lehi?
With what Nephi has already received isn't it apparent that Nephi does not lack belief?
The reason this is interesting to me is because folks who have progressed further up the path than where I am at presently, like Nephi, are being asked this question.
For example:
And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood. And the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear. And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth, and the Lord said unto him, Arise. Why hast thou fallen? And he saith unto the Lord, I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me, for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood. And the Lord said unto him, Because of thy faith, thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood. And none of those now living have come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast, for were it not so, ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this? And he answered, Nay, Lord. Shew thyself unto me. And the Lord said unto him, Believest thou the words which I shall speak? And he answered, Yea, Lord. I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth and canst not lie. (Ether 3:6 - 12, NC Ether 1 par. 12)
I would expect that this question would be asked of me because I am far from the place on the path that Nephi and the brother of Jared find themselves, but here is the brother of Jared standing at the veil with the Lord on the other side and the brother of Jared sees the Lord's finger come through the veil to touch the stones and yet when he desires to see the Lord completely the Lord asks him "Believest thou the words which I shall speak?"
Isn't that just a little bit curious?
Why, when an individual comes so far are they asked if they do believe or will believe words that have or will be spoken?
I found an explanation for the question of the Lord to the brother of Jared that I find very interesting and has caused me to consider my own motives in seeking to communicate with heaven.
Is it possible that this is why the Prophet Joseph taught
A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination be aware of, because the things of God are of deep import, and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Your mind, O man, if you will lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost Heavens, and search into and contemplate the lowest considerations of the darkest abyss, and expand upon the broad considerations of eternal expanse. You must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God than the vain imagination of the human heart? None but fools will trifle with the souls of men. (Teachings and Commandments, 138 par. 18)
Is it a fanciful and flowery and heated imagination to consider that communication from the heavens would be thundering and loud and would it appeal to the vain imagination of the human heart to consider that "Hey if I commune with God it is me talking to the thundering giant"?
Am I supposed to take away from Nephi's experience that if I truly begin to communicate with heaven I will need to have my heart right to believe what is said because it most certainly will not appeal to my vanity?
Should I consider that whatever I may receive from heaven will be calculated to cause me to consider the characteristics that God possesses and that I must come to possess and my own infinite deficiencies that must be overcome if I am ever going to learn how to be like God?
Is it hard for me to believe that my own deficiencies are so great?
Is it possible that this is a pattern that can be applied to all things received from heaven?
Are the messages from heaven so unassuming that one must be able to believe in order to receive them?
These accounts come to mind.
So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall come again to you and you shall be clean. But Naaman was angry, and went away and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper. Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? May I not wash in them and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage. And his servants came near, and spoke unto him and said, My father, if the prophet had bid you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much rather then, when he says to you, Wash and be clean? Then went he down and dipped himself seven times in Jordan according to the saying of the man of God, and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. (2 Kings 5:8-14, OC 2 Kings 2 par. 15)
What could be more simple and unassuming for healing than to be washed (baptized) in the Jordan river seven times?
For in that day, for my sake, shall the Father work a work which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them, and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them. But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore, they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Therefore, it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the gentiles, it shall be done even as Moses said — They shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant. And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through, both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off. Yea, woe be unto the gentiles except they repent, for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots, and I will cut off the cities of thy land and throw down all thy strong holds. And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers. Thy graven images I will also cut off and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands. And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities. And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms shall be done away. For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day, whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel, and I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. (3 Nephi 21:9 - 21, NC 3 Nephi 9 par. 12)
What is more simple and unassuming than the Lord sending a man to declare His words to a people?
Does the ability to believe in simple and unassuming things figure in very prominently in being able to receive knowledge from heaven?
Do the questions posed to Nephi and to the brother of Jared have any relation to the principle taught in the scriptures that by small and simple means great things are brought to pass?
It is very difficult for me to express the questions I have concerning this account with Nephi and its relation to other things.
I know for myself from the experience of the past few years that the Lord works marvelous and wonderous works that are simple and unassuming and require that people develop the ability to believe in small things in order to see God's mighty works come to pass.
I also wonder if what was asked of Nephi is also at least partially related to what Joseph taught below.
The plea of many in this day is, that we have no right to receive revelations; but if we do not
get revelations, we do not have the oracles of God; and if they have not the oracles of God, they are
not the people of God. But say you, What will become of the world, or the various professors of
religion who do not believe in revelation and the oracles of God as continued to His Church in all
ages of the world, when He has a people on earth? I tell you, in the name of Jesus Christ, they
will be damned; and when you get into the eternal world, you will find it will be so, they cannot
escape the damnation of hell. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 272)
Was it necessary for Nephi to voice his belief that his father Lehi had a vision of the tree in order to qualify to receive the vision?
Was Nephi, by responding yes, opening the way for himself to receive the oracles of God?
If this is all related is it also related to what the Lord said to the father of the possessed boy?
And they brought him unto Jesus, and when the man saw him, immediately he was convulsed by the spirit, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming. And Jesus asked his father, How long a time is it since this came unto him? And his father said, When a child; and ofttimes it has cast him into the fire and into the waters, to destroy him. But if you can, I ask you to have compassion on us and help us. Jesus said unto him, If you will believe all things I shall say unto you, this is possible to him that believes. And immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief. (Mark 9:20 - 24, NC Mark 5 par. 9)
Is it necessary that no matter how far up we may find ourselves on the path that there will still be a need to believe words from the Lord that we have never heard before?
Hasn't Nephi demonstrated by his actions that he believes the words of his father, Lehi?
With what Nephi has already received isn't it apparent that Nephi does not lack belief?
The reason this is interesting to me is because folks who have progressed further up the path than where I am at presently, like Nephi, are being asked this question.
For example:
And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood. And the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear. And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth, and the Lord said unto him, Arise. Why hast thou fallen? And he saith unto the Lord, I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me, for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood. And the Lord said unto him, Because of thy faith, thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood. And none of those now living have come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast, for were it not so, ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this? And he answered, Nay, Lord. Shew thyself unto me. And the Lord said unto him, Believest thou the words which I shall speak? And he answered, Yea, Lord. I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth and canst not lie. (Ether 3:6 - 12, NC Ether 1 par. 12)
I would expect that this question would be asked of me because I am far from the place on the path that Nephi and the brother of Jared find themselves, but here is the brother of Jared standing at the veil with the Lord on the other side and the brother of Jared sees the Lord's finger come through the veil to touch the stones and yet when he desires to see the Lord completely the Lord asks him "Believest thou the words which I shall speak?"
Isn't that just a little bit curious?
Why, when an individual comes so far are they asked if they do believe or will believe words that have or will be spoken?
I found an explanation for the question of the Lord to the brother of Jared that I find very interesting and has caused me to consider my own motives in seeking to communicate with heaven.
Why do you think the Lord posed the question, If I show myself to you, will you believe in me? Why do you think that Mormon writes about how he’s spoken face-to-face in plain humility, as one man speaks to another? We want the thundering and the lightning and the ground-shaking on Sinai, and when the Lord appeared to the brother of Jared, before appearing, He asked him, Now when you see me, are you going to believe me? He loveth all who will have him to be their God… Well, I knew not that God was a man… You seem so much bigger and better when you were the burly thunderer from behind the curtain announcing that you are the great and powerful Oz. But now that the curtain’s drawn aside and you’re like— Man was created in your image, and it literally means that. It takes some of the varnish off it all.
God’s greatness does not consist in striking awe in the eye of the beholder because of glory. It consists in the humility, the virtue, the goodness, the purity of the being. We worship God, not because He is powerful. We worship God because He represents everything that is pure and holy and good—everything that is desirable above all else. The purity of that fruit that was delicious that father Lehi talked about and Nephi wrote about, it is so because of its goodness. Because it is exactly what the highest and the best and the most noble should be. That’s who God is. ("Meekness & Humility, Part 2", Denver Snuffer Podcast, Podcast #94)
Is it possible that our understanding of things, as far as what we may consider being the "light show" of revelation, is off?
Is it possible that the knowledge that is conveyed from heaven (revelations, visions, prophesy) is all meek in nature and so those receiving it are asked "will you believe" or "do you believe" because what is received is not loud and grandiose and appealing to vanity, even though it may be sweeping in its scope?
What about this account from Elijah?
And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind, an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake, a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire, a still small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. (1 Kings 19:11 - 13, OC 1 Kings 4 par. 26)
Is it possible that what the Lord taught to Elijah here is relevant to everything He reveals from heaven to those who will believe?Is it possible that this is why the Prophet Joseph taught
A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination be aware of, because the things of God are of deep import, and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Your mind, O man, if you will lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost Heavens, and search into and contemplate the lowest considerations of the darkest abyss, and expand upon the broad considerations of eternal expanse. You must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God than the vain imagination of the human heart? None but fools will trifle with the souls of men. (Teachings and Commandments, 138 par. 18)
Is it a fanciful and flowery and heated imagination to consider that communication from the heavens would be thundering and loud and would it appeal to the vain imagination of the human heart to consider that "Hey if I commune with God it is me talking to the thundering giant"?
Am I supposed to take away from Nephi's experience that if I truly begin to communicate with heaven I will need to have my heart right to believe what is said because it most certainly will not appeal to my vanity?
Should I consider that whatever I may receive from heaven will be calculated to cause me to consider the characteristics that God possesses and that I must come to possess and my own infinite deficiencies that must be overcome if I am ever going to learn how to be like God?
Is it hard for me to believe that my own deficiencies are so great?
Is it possible that this is a pattern that can be applied to all things received from heaven?
Are the messages from heaven so unassuming that one must be able to believe in order to receive them?
These accounts come to mind.
So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall come again to you and you shall be clean. But Naaman was angry, and went away and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper. Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? May I not wash in them and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage. And his servants came near, and spoke unto him and said, My father, if the prophet had bid you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much rather then, when he says to you, Wash and be clean? Then went he down and dipped himself seven times in Jordan according to the saying of the man of God, and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. (2 Kings 5:8-14, OC 2 Kings 2 par. 15)
What could be more simple and unassuming for healing than to be washed (baptized) in the Jordan river seven times?
For in that day, for my sake, shall the Father work a work which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them, and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them. But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore, they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Therefore, it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the gentiles, it shall be done even as Moses said — They shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant. And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through, both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off. Yea, woe be unto the gentiles except they repent, for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots, and I will cut off the cities of thy land and throw down all thy strong holds. And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers. Thy graven images I will also cut off and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands. And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities. And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms shall be done away. For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day, whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel, and I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. (3 Nephi 21:9 - 21, NC 3 Nephi 9 par. 12)
What is more simple and unassuming than the Lord sending a man to declare His words to a people?
Does the ability to believe in simple and unassuming things figure in very prominently in being able to receive knowledge from heaven?
Do the questions posed to Nephi and to the brother of Jared have any relation to the principle taught in the scriptures that by small and simple means great things are brought to pass?
It is very difficult for me to express the questions I have concerning this account with Nephi and its relation to other things.
I know for myself from the experience of the past few years that the Lord works marvelous and wonderous works that are simple and unassuming and require that people develop the ability to believe in small things in order to see God's mighty works come to pass.
I also wonder if what was asked of Nephi is also at least partially related to what Joseph taught below.
The plea of many in this day is, that we have no right to receive revelations; but if we do not
get revelations, we do not have the oracles of God; and if they have not the oracles of God, they are
not the people of God. But say you, What will become of the world, or the various professors of
religion who do not believe in revelation and the oracles of God as continued to His Church in all
ages of the world, when He has a people on earth? I tell you, in the name of Jesus Christ, they
will be damned; and when you get into the eternal world, you will find it will be so, they cannot
escape the damnation of hell. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 272)
Was it necessary for Nephi to voice his belief that his father Lehi had a vision of the tree in order to qualify to receive the vision?
Was Nephi, by responding yes, opening the way for himself to receive the oracles of God?
If this is all related is it also related to what the Lord said to the father of the possessed boy?
And they brought him unto Jesus, and when the man saw him, immediately he was convulsed by the spirit, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming. And Jesus asked his father, How long a time is it since this came unto him? And his father said, When a child; and ofttimes it has cast him into the fire and into the waters, to destroy him. But if you can, I ask you to have compassion on us and help us. Jesus said unto him, If you will believe all things I shall say unto you, this is possible to him that believes. And immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief. (Mark 9:20 - 24, NC Mark 5 par. 9)
Is it necessary that no matter how far up we may find ourselves on the path that there will still be a need to believe words from the Lord that we have never heard before?
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