And now as I have spoken concerning these plates, behold, they are not the plates upon which I make a full account of the history of my people; for the plates upon which I make a full account of my people I have given the name of Nephi; wherefore, they are called the plates of Nephi, after mine own name. And these plates also are called the plates of Nephi. Nevertheless, I have received a commandment of the Lord that I should make these plates for the special purpose that there should be an account engraven of the ministry of my people. And upon the other plates should be engraven an account of the reigns of the kings, and the wars and contentions of my people. Wherefore, these plates are for the more part of the ministry, and the other plates are for the more part of the reigns of the kings, and the wars and contentions of my people. Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not. But the Lord knoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men. For behold, he hath all power unto the fulfilling of all his words. And thus it is. Amen.
Is the above what is happening as recorded in 2 Nephi 5:30 - 34, NC 2 Nephi 4 par. 6?
And it came to pass that the Lord God said unto me, Make other plates; and thou shalt engraven many things upon them which are good in my sight for the profit of thy people. Wherefore, I, Nephi, to be obedient to the commandments of the Lord, went and made these plates upon which I have engraven these things. And I engravened that which is pleasing unto God. And if my people are pleased with the things of God, they will be pleased with mine engravings which are upon these plates. And if my people desire to know the more particular part of the history of my people, they must search mine other plates. And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.
If it is then isn't Nephi writing these words in the Americas?
If so wouldn't he be writing these things after having seen the vision of all things to the end?
If that is the case how can Nephi say this?
Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not.
Here is why I wonder about this.
And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying, Behold, saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remnant of the house of Israel (and this remnant of whom I speak is the seed of thy father), wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment and smitten them by the hand of the gentiles, and after that the gentiles do stumble exceedingly because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which has been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb, I will be merciful unto the gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them in mine own power much of my gospel which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb. For behold, saith the Lamb, I will manifest myself unto thy seed, that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious. And after thy seed shall be destroyed and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold, these things shall be hid up to come forth unto the gentiles by the gift and power of the Lamb. And in them shall be written my gospel, saith the Lamb, and my rock and my salvation. And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the holy ghost. And if they endure unto the end, they shall be lifted up at the last day and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb. Yea, whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be! (1 Nephi 13:38 - 42, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 24)
Wasn't Nephi told about this record being made and coming forth to the Gentiles?
If it was in vision didn't Nephi see the coming forth of the record he is inscribing?
I have heard that this verse shows how God knew that Martin Harris would lose the original translated manuscript and this record is the one that would replace what was lost.
If this is so, wouldn't Nephi have seen that happen in his vision as he witnessed the record coming forth to the Gentiles?
Because I believe Nephi and I also believe what Nephi said concerning the Lord that He "knoweth all things from the beginning,; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men.", there must be an explanation that addresses this question.
One thought that does come to mind as I have read of others' visions is this.
Just because someone is shown something in vision does that mean they will understand it immediately?
When the Lord recently answered the prayer for accepting the corrected scriptures He included a replacement account for a damaged account found in section 110 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
The following is part of what the Lord revealed that Joseph and Oliver were shown in the Kirtland temple.
As this vision closed, the Heavens were again opened to their view, and they saw and beheld, and were endowed with knowledge from the beginning of this creation to the ends thereof. And they were shown unspeakable things from the sealed record of Heaven, which man is not capable of making known, but must be revealed by the Powers of Heaven. They beheld Michael, the archangel, Gabriel, and Raphael, and divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the end of time, showing in turns their dispensations, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the Powers of their Priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; endowing them with knowledge, even here a little and there a little; holding forth hope for the work God was yet to perform, even the revelation of all things which are to come upon the earth until the return of the Lord in glory with His holy angels — to pour out judgment upon the world, and to reward the righteous. And they were unable to take it in; therefore, they were commanded to pray and ask to comprehend by the power of the spirit, to bring all things to their remembrance, even the Record of Heaven which would abide in them. Amen and Amen. (T&C 157 pars. 30 - 32)
It is clear from what the Lord revealed that it was impossible for Joseph and Oliver to understand all that they were shown in vision.
They were commanded to pray and ask to comprehend by the power of the spirit what had been shown to them.
Is this similar to what occurred among the Nephites when the Lord appeared to them and taught them?
Behold, now it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he looked round about again on the multitude and he said unto them, Behold, my time is at hand. I perceive that ye are weak, that ye cannot understand all my words which I am commanded of the Father to speak unto you at this time; therefore, go ye unto your homes, and ponder upon the things which I have said, and ask of the Father, in my name, that ye may understand and prepare your minds for the morrow, and I come unto you again. But now I go unto the Father, and also to shew myself unto the lost tribes of Israel, for they are not lost unto the Father, for he knoweth whither he hath taken them. (3 Nephi 17:1 - 4, NC 3 Nephi 8 par. 1)
Would it be unreasonable to state that the Nephites needed to ponder and ask the Father for understanding of what the Lord was going to speak because in their present condition they were "unable to take it in"?
Is this why Nephi declared this concerning himself?
Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord, and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard. (2 Nephi 4:13 - 16, NC 2 Nephi 3 par. 6)
Was Nephi unable to take in everything that he had seen and heard so he had to ponder on all of those things continually in order for understanding to come?
Is this all related to what the Prophet Joseph declared concerning the things of God?
A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination be aware of, because the things of God are of deep import, and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Your mind, O man, if you will lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost Heavens, and search into and contemplate the lowest considerations of the darkest abyss, and expand upon the broad considerations of eternal expanse. You must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God than the vain imagination of the human heart? None but fools will trifle with the souls of men. (T&C 138 par. 18)
Is it possible that even at the time that Nephi was writing concerning his not understanding the purpose for this other record that he had not yet received an understanding of everything the Lord had shown him in the vision?
Or, is it possible that when Nephi was shown his vision he was shown things in general and not every little detail?
How do visions work?
Do they work similarly to prophesy?
In a blogpost concerning principles of prophecy, the following was described.
First, the purpose of prophecy is not always to make a matter clear before it happens. Prophecy may not have a clear meaning before an event happens, but once it has happened it becomes apparent that the event was foretold. This keeps the prophecy from controlling the event, but allows those who have faith to see the Lord’s hand in operation. Therefore, having some difficulty in attaching specific meaning to the prophecy is exactly in keeping with prophecy’s traditional way of communicating an event. ( "3 Nephi 21:10-11", DenverSnuffer.com, Jul. 2010)
Is this the principle in play here concerning Nephi's words?
If the replacement plates were indeed meant for the sole purpose of relacing what Martin Harris was going to lose was this purposefully veiled from Nephi to show forth afterwards that the Lord knew what was going to happen all along?
I don't know about this because of two things that I have read.
First is the account of Moses being shown a vision of the world.
And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, he cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all the face of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God. And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul whom he beheld not. And he discerned them by the spirit of God, and their numbers were great, even as numberless as the sand upon the seashore. And he beheld many lands, and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof. (Moses 1:27 - 29, OC Genesis 1 par. 6)
If I understand this correctly Moses witnessed even the smallest details pertaining to the earth; every particle and every inhabitant.
That would seem to mean to me that in vision even the smallest details were presented to Moses.
If I understand it correctly this is a purposeful description of a vision giving even the tiniest of details concerning what Moses was shown.
The second is the words of Nephi's commentary following his insertion of Isaiah into the plates.
But behold, it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall say unto him to whom he shall deliver the book, Take these words which are not sealed and deliver them to another, that he may shew them unto the learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee. And the learned shall say, Bring hither the book and I will read them. And now because of the glory of the world and to get gain will they say this, and not for the glory of God. And the man shall say, I cannot bring the book, for it is sealed. Then shall the learned say, I cannot read it. Wherefore, it shall come to pass that the Lord God will deliver again the book and the words thereof to him that is not learned; and the man that is not learned shall say, I am not learned. Then shall the Lord God say unto him, The learned shall not read them, for they have rejected them, and I am able to do mine own work; wherefore, thou shalt read the words which I shall give unto thee. Touch not the things which are sealed, for I will bring them forth in mine own due time, for I will show unto the children of men that I am able to do mine own work. Wherefore, when thou hast read the words which I have commanded thee, and obtained the witnesses which I have promised unto thee, then shalt thou seal up the book again and hide it up unto me, that I may preserve the words which thou hast not read, until I shall see fit in mine own wisdom to reveal all things unto the children of men. For behold, I am God, and I am a God of miracles, and I will shew unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and for ever, and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.(2 Nephi 27:15 - 23, NC 2 Nephi 11 par. 20)
It appears to me that here Nephi is using his commentary of Isaiah to describe what he has seen concerning the event where the Book of Mormon characters were taken to professor Anton.
That seems like a very particular detail that Nephi obviously knows about.
If Nephi knows concerning this event during the translation of the Book of Mormon then how would he have not known about Martin Harris losing the original translated manuscript?
Is there another option?
Is it possible that Nephi's mind was so caught up concerning other things in the vision that he did not observe Martin losing the original manuscript?
We know that this has happened to someone receiving a vision because it happened to Lehi.
And they said unto me, What meaneth the river of water which our father saw? And I said unto them that the water which my father saw was filthiness; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he beheld not the filthiness of the water. And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf which separateth the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God. And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked. And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous, and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire which ascendeth up unto God for ever and ever and hath no end. (1 Nephi 15:21 - 30, NC 1 Nephi 4 par. 5)
Or, is it possible that the Lord's purposes Nephi is speaking of go beyond replacement of the lost original manuscript?
Nephi states clearly what it is that is being inscribed and will be inscribed on these plates.
And I engravened that which is pleasing unto God.
Moroni records something that is telling and maybe helpful to the discussion, close to the end of the record.
And I said unto him, Lord, the gentiles will mock at these things because of our weakness in writing; for Lord, thou hast made us mighty in word by faith, but thou hast not made us mighty in writing. For thou hast made all this people that they could speak much because of the holy ghost, which thou hast given them. And thou hast made us that we could write but little because of the awkwardness of our hands. Behold, thou hast not made us mighty in writing like unto the brother of Jared, for thou madest him that the things which he wrote were mighty, even as thou art, unto the overpowering of man to read them. Thou hast also made our words powerful and great, even that we cannot write them. Wherefore, when we write, we behold our weakness and stumble because of the placing of our words. And I fear lest the gentiles shall mock at our words. (Ether 12:23 - 25, NC Ether 5 par. 4)
It appears to me from what I have read so far of how and what Lehi was teaching to his children and also Nephi that they were well accustomed to listening to words made mighty by faith.
Lehi at the very beginning even spoke with such power that Laman and Lemuel shook before him.
Their writings and engravings seem to be another matter, from what Moroni spoke.
Is it possible that even though Nephi has seen the words of the Book of Mormon going forth among the Gentiles that because he understands the weakness of their writing that he cannot fully understand how the Lord will get the message across to the Gentiles?
Is it possible that in Nephi's statement he is in a way declaring that he does not understand how he would be able to communicate, in his weakness of writing, the things of God that he has received to the Gentiles, but he trusts that the Lord knows what He is doing and is able to accomplish the work He wants to have accomplished in spite of having to use Nephi's weak writing?
When Moroni declared what he declared about the weakness of writing the Lord responded as follows.
And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying, Fools mock, but they shall mourn. And my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness. And if men come unto me, I will shew unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness, that they may be humble. And my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. Behold, I will shew unto the gentiles their weakness. And I will shew unto them that faith, hope, and charity bringeth unto me, the fountain of all righteousness. (Ether 12:26 - 28, NC Ether 5 par. 5)
Is it possible that what the Lord told Moroni above is the wise purpose of the Lord; using the inscribed record of Nephi, even with the weakness of writing?
Was the record Nephi was creating intended all along to draw out the meek among the Gentiles and Jews and remnant of Lehi in the latter days, who see their own weakness before God, and invite them to partake of the Lord's grace by exercising faith until they receive a hope in Christ and thereby obtain charity?
The Book of Mormon, again and again, repeats witnesses of individuals who have through those steps been brought to Christ, the fountain of all righteousness.
Moroni prayed to the Lord to give the Gentiles grace and the Lord would not give him that promise.
And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the gentiles grace, that they might have charity. And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me, If they have not charity, it mattereth not unto thee. Thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness, thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father. And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren, whom I love, until we shall meet before the judgment seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood. And then shall ye know that I have seen Jesus, and that he hath talked with me face to face, and that he told me in plain humility, even as a man telleth another, in mine own language, concerning these things. And only a few have I written because of my weakness in writing. And now I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written, that the grace of God the Father, and also the Lord Jesus Christ, and the holy ghost, which beareth record of them, may be and abide in you for ever. Amen. (Ether 12:36 - 41, NC Ether 5 pars. 7 - 8)
Is this Book of Mormon the means the Lord established in the latter days for us to reconnect with Him?
Do we find in the Book of Mormon principles, teachings, commandments, and Christ's doctrine that would enable any individual to meekly approach the Lord?
Do we find in the Book of Mormon a promise that every individual who approaches the Lord, according to those things He has established to be written in it, will come back into His presence during this life and receive of His grace?
Because of his weakness in writing and his experiences of hearing powerful things spoken, is it possible that Nephi wondered something like "I don't understand why I would be commanded to write these things because my writing is weak, but God, in His wisdom, knows why He has commanded me to prepare this weak record in order to fulfill His wise purposes"?
I am not sure which is the solution to the question.
These are the things I am wondering about right now concerning Nephi's statement.
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