The Things of God are of Deep Import

Thursday, August 20, 2020

A Large and Spacious Building

“The world and earth are not synonymous terms. The world is the human family.”1 What is the end of the world? The destruction of the wicked.2

1 WJS, 60, 82n1, 25n9; JS, Discourse, Nauvoo, IL, 5 Jan. 1841; in L. John Nuttall, journal, pp. 4–8; handwriting of L. John Nuttall; L. John Nuttall, Papers, BYU. “Account of Meeting and Discourse, 5 January 1841, as Reported by William Clayton,” 5, JSP, https: //www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/account-of-meeting-and-discourse- 5-january-1841-as-reported-by-william-clayton/2.

2 TPJS, 101; WJS, 13, 25n9.

What Nephi is seeing represented in the great and spacious building is the wisdom of the human family that is contrary to and being used to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

If it is correct, from the last post, that Joseph who was sold into Egypt is part of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, then 1) Again, who are these folks and why were they chosen before the foundation of the human family? 2)What really is the purpose of this role of being one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

Nephi is shown that the multitudes of the earth were involved in this fighting against the twelve.

Does the description "multitudes of the earth" mean everyone or just the supermajority of them?

Why did the angel separately state that the house of Israel has gathered together to fight against the twelve?

Is it more egregious for the house of Israel to be fighting against the twelve apostles of the Lamb than it is for the other multitudes of the earth?

Is the house of Israel specifically mentioned because of their covenantal status through the promises of the Lord to their fathers?

Was it possible for them to leave the status of covenant bearers because of their fighting against the twelve?

If it was possible for them to lose covenantal status because of their fighting against the twelve apostles of the Lamb and if I believe that I am part of a covenant then could I lose that status as well if I choose to fight against the twelve?

Was the angel specifically pointing this out to Nephi to show that it is possible to lose covenantal status by fighting against the twelve?

What does it mean to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

Is this physical confrontation?

Is this fighting against the twelve apostles of the Lamb limited to the time frame of the apostles following the death and resurrection of Christ?

If Joseph who was sold into Egypt is included in the twelve apostles of the Lamb and to fight against them meant physical confrontation, then how would someone fight against Joseph since he had long since died?

Is it possible that fighting against them is something more than or maybe different from physical confrontation?

Since the wisdom of the world (the great and spacious building) is a representation of the wisdom of the human family, doesn't the human family include everyone from all ages of the earth in every time?

Is it possible that members of the human family before the time of Christ and after, even to now, have been and are and will be fighting against the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

How would the wisdom of the human family be used to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

If so, what would that include?

If the human family is described to be fighting against these twelve emissaries because of the "wisdom" of the human family (the great and spacious building) could their fighting against the twelve include their rejection of the message the twelve are sent to deliver?

If I reject the message that the twelve apostles of the Lamb were sent to deliver could it be said of me that I am fighting against them?

Could the following event from the Book of Mormon be one example of many that demonstrates "fighting" against the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

Now it came to pass that there were many of the rising generation that could not understand the words of king Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people; and they did not believe the tradition of their fathers. They did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead, neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ. And now, because of their unbelief, they could not understand the word of God, and their hearts were hardened. And they would not be baptized, neither would they join the church. And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state, for they would not call upon the Lord their God. And now in the reign of Mosiah, they were not half so numerous as the people of God; but because of the dissensions among the brethren, they became more numerous. For it came to pass that they did deceive many — with their flattering words — who were in the church, and did cause them to commit many sins. Therefore, it became expedient that those who committed sin, that were in the church, should be admonished by the church. (Mosiah 26:1 - 6, NC Mosiah 11 par. 18)

Could rejecting the message that the twelve were sent to deliver be related to what the angel told Joseph on the night of his first September visit?

... He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses [Acts 2:3], precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ, but the day had not yet come when they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people, but soon would come. He also quoted the second chapter of Joel from the twenty-eighth to the last verse [Joel 1:12]. He also said that this was not yet fulfilled, but was soon to be. And he further stated the fullness of the gentiles was soon to come in. He quoted many other passages of scripture and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here. (Joseph Smith History 1:36 - 41, T&C section 1 Joseph Smith History, part 3, par. 4)

Is it possible that not hearing the voice of Christ, or in other words, not receiving the words that Christ has sent constitutes rejecting the message sent through His twelve or fighting against His twelve?

I believe what King Benjamin spoke concerning committing sin.

..And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them...(Mosiah 4:26 - 30, NC Mosiah 2 par. 6)

I believe that this same principle would be true with this subject; that there are diverse ways and means to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb, even so many that they cannot be numbered.

Are there general principles stated in the scriptures that if applied will help one avoid placing themselves in the camp of fighting against the twelve because of the wisdom of the human family?

What about the following?

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from them who think they are wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes. Because, Father, for so it seemed good in your sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father, and no man knows that the Son is the Father, and that the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it. And he turned himself unto the disciples and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that you see, for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them, and to hear those things which you hear, and have not heard them. (Luke 10:21 - 24, NC Luke 8 par. 6)

Does the above have any relation to this statement from the Lord?

... And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things. And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Verily, verily I say unto you that this is my doctrine. And whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establisheth it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil and is not built upon my rock, but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell standeth open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them. Therefore, go forth unto this people and declare the words which I have spoken unto the ends of the earth. (3 Nephi 11:31 - 41, NC 3 Nephi 5 par. 9)

Why does the Lord use the terms babes and children in the above references?

Was the Lord referring to His disciples as the "babes"?

I believe so.

Does that give new meaning to the statement the Lord made that if someone was guilty of offending one of His little ones it would be better that a millstone be set about their necks and they be drowned in the depths of the sea?

What are the qualities that "children" and "babes" possess that allow them to receive a message God has sent?

Consider the following.

Believe in Christ, repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and become as a little child. There is no more inquisitive a creature on the planet than a little child. That’s who you’re to become. You should hunger and search for understanding. This is all of the doctrine. There is no more doctrine. This is not all of the teachings, this is not all the tenants, these are not all of the precepts, this is not all of the covenants, this is not all of the commandments, and this is not all of the principles, but it’s all of the doctrine. There is no more doctrine than this…

We have this absolutely schizophrenic set of pictures in our head about the Lord. On the one hand, He is this limp-wristed, happy-go-lucky, permissive chap who sashays about blessing everyone with fairy dust. And on the other hand, we have this stern, unapproachable, distant, galactic ruler who just can’t be troubled by any of us and He says, This is His work and His glory, to save you. Not merely to save and preserve you, but to bring about your eternal life and your exaltation. That’s what He’s about. Get rid of the junk in your heads and let the scriptures speak to you. As Joseph said, Look, everything in them can be a mystery if what you have done is barred the information from getting through to you by the door that you have erected from the traditions that you have been handed. Many of you have been handed traditions from very good and very well meaning and very honorable Latter Day Saint parents who ought to be commended and praised for the effort that they made with you.

However, I don’t care if your parents were nigh unto God or the devil himself, the fact of the matter remains that we all have the freedom to choose to leave behind whatever it is that becomes the door against which the Savior has to knock, hoping that you’ll hear his voice. We have to become as a little child, because it’s only the little children who are willing to open themselves up and become vulnerable enough to believe and then hopeful enough to act on that belief, so that they develop faith and then persistent enough to ask again, and again, and again… are we there yet, are we there yet? ("As a Little Child", Podcast 72, Denver Snuffer.com)

I would invite everyone to listen to or to read the full transcript of the podcast "As a Little Child", podcast #72.

I believe it has great application to what Nephi is sharing here from his marvelous vision.

If we become people who thirst and hunger for truth, light, and understanding; if we become people who are inquisitive and willing to let the words of the Lord inform us instead of reading our traditions and learning into His words then won't the rest of the human family, those who consider themselves wise and prudent, look at us as though we are unlearned children?

Didn't the Lord declare in an above scripture that God reveals things that are kept hid from those who consider themselves wise and prudent?

Would the above give new meaning to what Isaiah prophesied?

For behold, the Lord, the Lord of Hosts doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole staff of bread and the whole stay of water, the mighty man, and the man of war, the judge, and the prophet, and the prudent, and the ancient, the captain of fifty, and the honorable man, and the counselor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator. And I will give children unto them to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them... (2 Nephi 13:1 - 11, NC 2 Nephi 8 par. 7)

Nephi stated, "I saw and bear record that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world."

My present understanding is that Nephi's statement means that the human family is proud of its wisdom (the great and spacious building).

In my mind it is like someone saying "look at this", whatever it may be. "This object is the pride of the neighborhood" or the pride of the city or the pride of the country or the pride of the etc.

What does it mean when Nephi states, "And it came to pass that I saw and bear record that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world; and the fall thereof was exceeding great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying, Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

As we consider the wisdom of the human family (the great and spacious building), what does it mean that the fall of this wisdom is exceeding great?

Does it have anything to do with what the Lord declared?

And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Verily, verily I say unto you that this is my doctrine. And whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establisheth it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil and is not built upon my rock, but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell standeth open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

What are the floods and winds that will beat upon all but that will overcome those who do not build upon the doctrine of Christ?

Would being received into the gates of hell be something that could be considered an exceeding great fall?

What about the statement of the angel, who I believe was Nephi, to the Prophet Joseph on that September evening in 1823?

He said that that prophet was Christ, but the day had not yet come when they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people, but soon would come.

Could being cut off from among the people possibly be associated with being destroyed?

Is Nephi trying to plainly invite us and exhort us to become as little children so that we do not find ourselves in the great and spacious building (the wisdom of the human family) where the only outcome is to be cut off from among the people and received by the gates of hell because of the winds and floods that will beat upon us?

To me, the admonition to become childlike in order to avoid entering into the great and spacious building follows more in line with the rest of what King Benjamin said about committing sin.

But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe to keep the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember and perish not. (Mosiah 4:26 - 30, NC Mosiah 2 par. 6)

I don't know that it is possible to describe all the ways that exist to enter into the great and spacious building but my present understanding of how to avoid it is to become childlike as I hear and read and ponder the message the twelve apostles of the Lamb were sent to deliver.

Under my present understanding, I can hear Nephi saying to me in this part of the vision, "And now, o Jon, remember and become as a little child and be not part of the great fall and the destruction of nations, kindreds, tongues and peoples who fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

Sunday, July 19, 2020

The Twelve Apostles of the Lamb

I engage in a process that precedes what I consider having possession of any kind of reliable information. Speculation and casual comments I have made are not particularly reliable. Research I’ve done to try to understand a subject is not reliable. Conversations in emails about some topic may be nothing more than guess work or casual conversation. When information, light and truth come from God, I consider that reliable information worth writing about, talking about or teaching.

Years ago I was contemplating the subject of Christ’s original apostles. As I looked into the scriptures, the promise Christ made to the twelve was that in the resurrection they would sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Judas was among the twelve when the promise was made. Judas fell away, betrayed the Lord and committed suicide. Whatever promise Judas may have had would have required his continued faithfulness. He was not faithful. Therefore, his throne and position as a judge in the resurrection over a tribe of Israel was forfeited. This led to the question of who would fill that vacancy.

I studied the scriptures looking exclusively for an answer to that question. Matthias was chosen to fill the vacancy left by Judas. He was chosen “by lot” which was the agreed method of discovering who the Lord wanted. Assuming that process was inspired, then Matthias would be one candidate.

Christ called Paul to be an apostle and messenger. Paul wrote 2/3 of the New Testament books (letters). He was clearly chosen by God and would be another candidate to replace Judas in the resurrected role given to the twelve. I saw no other likely contender apart from these two. After considering the almost complete absence of Matthias from the New Testament record, and Paul’s great contribution, I concluded that the vacancy was filled by Paul.

Having reached a conclusion, I took it to God in prayer. Despite all my effort to study the matter out and reach a conclusion, I learned that I was wrong. I had not found the truth. My efforts did nothing more than qualify me to receive the right answer. It did not make me right.

I learned that of the original tribal leaders, eleven of the twelve fell from their positions as patriarchs. But one of the sons of Jacob never forfeited the right to be the head of his family. Joseph, who was sold into Egypt, remained worthy, chosen and fixed in his position over his posterity. There were always only eleven vacancies to be filled. Eleven of the twelve apostles, along with Joseph of Egypt, will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the resurrection. ("Reliable Information, Denversnuffer.com, February 21, 2018)

I have touched on so very little of the subject of the twelve seen by both Nephi and Lehi as following the Lord here in mortality.

It is a subject worth looking into.

Sunday, July 5, 2020

He Was Lifted Up

1 Nephi 11:, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 14

And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying, Look. And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people, yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record. And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world. And after he was slain, I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb, for thus were the twelve called by the angel of the Lord. And the multitude of the earth was gathered together, and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying, Behold, the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold, the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And it came to pass that I saw and bear record that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world; and the fall thereof was exceeding great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying, Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim, 1 Nefi 3 par. 14

And it came to pass that the angel spoke unto me again, saying, Look. And I looked and beheld the Lamb of Elohim, that he was taken by the people, yes, the Son of the El Olam was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record. And I, Nefi, saw that he was lifted up upon the Tz’lav and slain for the sins of the world. And after he was slain, I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the emissaries of the Lamb, for thus were the twelve called by the angel of yhwh. And the multitude of the earth was gathered together, and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of yhwh spoke unto me again, saying, Behold, the world and the wisdom thereof; yes, behold, the house of Isra’el has gathered together to fight against the twelve emissaries of the Lamb. And it came to pass that I saw and bear record that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world; and the fall thereof was exceedingly great. And the angel of yhwh spoke unto me, saying, Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve emissaries of the Lamb.

It is hard for me to share what is going through my mind concerning this all-important subject being presented to us here in the Book of Mormon by Nephi.

There are, in my opinion, endless considerations to be made that have to do with sacrifice and ascension alone that are integral to what the Lord performed here during this event Nephi is viewing.

The more I am allowed to hear, read, and understand about what the Savior did by allowing Himself to become the sacrifice required to redeem all that was created by His hand the more I see my utter ignorance and, most of the time, my utter ingratitude for what He has prepared.

Enoch, who developed the capacity to see the creations of God as He sees them, had the following experience.

And it came to pass that the Lord spoke unto Enoch and told Enoch all the doings of the children of men. Wherefore, Enoch knew and looked upon their wickedness and their misery, and wept, and stretched forth his arms. And he beheld eternity, and his bowels yearned, and all eternity shook. And Enoch saw Noah also, and his family, that the posterity of all the sons of Noah should be saved with a temporal salvation. Wherefore, Enoch saw that Noah built an ark, and the Lord smiled upon it and held it in his own hand; but upon the residue of the wicked came the floods and swallowed them up.  And as Enoch saw thus, he had bitterness of soul, and wept over his brethren, and said unto the Heavens, I will refuse to be comforted. But the Lord said unto Enoch, Lift up your heart, and be glad, and look. And it came to pass that Enoch looked; and from Noah, he beheld all the families of the earth. And he cried unto the Lord, saying, When shall the day of the Lord come? When shall the blood of The Righteous be shed, that all they that mourn may be sanctified and have eternal life? And the Lord said, It shall be in the meridian of time, in the days of wickedness and vengeance. And behold, Enoch saw the day of the coming of the Son of Man, even in the flesh, and his soul rejoiced, saying, The Righteous is lifted up and the Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world. And through faith I am in the bosom of the Father, and behold, Zion is with me. (Moses 7:41 - 47, OC Genesis 4 pars. 18 - 19)

Enoch saw the waste, and the misery, and the destruction caused by the wickness of men and seeing that caused him to weep.

What kind of knowledge and understanding does an individual possess in order to have the ability to behold eternity and yearn to the point that all eternity shakes?

When a person of such understanding weeps for the misery and destruction that the wickedness of men causes isn't that a sorrowing indeed?

What depths of sorrow does such an individual with that level of understanding experience when they declare to the Heavens (i.e. those who are in Heaven) that they refuse to be comforted?

Only the view of one event changed the bitterness of Enoch's soul to rejoicing; "Enoch saw the day of the coming of the Son of Man, even in the flesh, and his soul rejoiced, saying, The Righteous is lifted up and the Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world."

How profound is this experience?

What does Enoch understand concerning the lifting up of the Lamb of God that we don't understand?

I don't believe that Enoch was rejoicing in the suffering of the Lamb but in the results; the power to fix what had been broken that came from His sacrifice.

Enoch further saw how the creation would respond to the Lamb of God being lifted up.

And it came to pass that Enoch cried unto the Lord, saying, When the Son of Man comes in the flesh, shall the earth rest? I ask of you, show me these things. And the Lord said unto Enoch, Look. And he looked, and beheld the Son of Man lifted upon the cross after the manner of men. And he heard a loud voice, and the heavens were veiled. And all the creation of God mourned, and the earth groaned, and the rocks were rent. And the saints arose and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man with crowns of glory. And as many of the spirits as were in prison came forth and stood on the right hand of God. And the remainder were reserved in chains of darkness until the judgment of the great day. (Moses 7:54 - 57, OC Genesis 4 par. 21)

As we will see a little on, Nephi also saw the reaction of this creation to the Lord being lifted up.

Below is part of the account of Adam and Eve after they partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil outside of the proper timing.

And I, the Lord God, said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you shall be cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field. Upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception. In sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you. And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said, Because you have listened unto the voice of your wife and have eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for your sake; in sorrow shall you eat of it all the days of your life. Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to you, and you shall eat the herb of the field. By the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you shall return unto the ground, for you shall surely die, for out of it were you taken — for dust you were and unto dust shall you return. And Adam called his wife’s name Eve because she was the mother of all living, for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which is many. Unto Adam also, and to his wife, did I, the Lord God, make coats of skin, and clothed them. (Moses 4:20 - 27, Genesis 3:14 - 21, OC Genesis 2 par. 18)

Notice that the coats of skins provided to Adam and Eve to clothe them were provided in the Garden of Eden.

Doesn't that mean that Adam and Eve first received a symbol of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God in the Garden to cover their shame before they were cast out?

As I understand it there was to that point no death in the Garden. They, Adam and Eve, witnessed this death and sacrifice for the first time here in a place where there was no death.

Consider the following.

Marriage was the first ordinance, it was introduced before the Fall, and it was introduced before
man was instructed on sacrifice. Go back to the Book of Moses in chapter 4, verse 27. This is
after they had transgressed, but before they had been sent out of the Garden: "Unto Adam, and
also unto his wife, did I, the Lord God, make coats of skins, and clothed them." [Now it's
important that, while the account sometimes refers to Adam by meaning both Adam and Eve, in
this case, it was necessary for a clarification to be made. The garment that was given unto them
to clothe their nakedness, is also referred to in the temple, as the garment of the Holy Priesthood.
God wants the record to be clear: "Unto Adam, and also unto his wife, did I, the Lord God, make
coats of skins, and clothed them." Therefore Adam was not clothed and then told, "You go and
do this and clothe your wife," God clothed them both. God did not expect Adam to intercede
when it comes to the clothing of the woman who had been given him. God treated her as if she
too were about to embark upon the journey into mortality that would require her likewise to
understand the principle of sacrifice. Think about it for one moment. You learn that they
practiced sacrifice thereafter, but when were they taught the principle of sacrifice? They were
taught about sacrifice at this moment, when they were clothed in the skins of an animal. The
animal gave its life to cover them.]
There are legends about this event. They show up in a variety of ways, they even show up in
mythical characters. These legends are about the animal chosen by God to be slain as the first
sacrifice. A choice had to be made for the sacrifice, in order to clothe them with the skins of an
animal. I rather like the theme of many of those, which is is that when the animals were brought
to Adam, and he named them, there were some he really liked more. But there was one particular
animal he liked above all the rest. It was that animal, and that animal's consort, who were slain in
order to provide the clothing for Adam and Eve. So Adam and his wife Eve could understand the
principle of sacrifice came at an enormous price. So the animal was no longer left in this sphere,
having been slain while yet in the Garden, to provide the coats. It was this great loss which was
used to drive home the point about the sacrifice required in order to clothe the nakedness of the
man and the woman. To “cover their shame” there was a great price to be paid.(Denver Snuffer, 40 Years in Mormonism, Lecture #9 "Marriage", pg. 285, found in PDF form for free on denversnuffer.com in the "downloads" section)

Can you imagine that the lifting up and slaying of the Lamb of God was so important and the price that was paid was so great for the success of the creations in this eternal round that the principle of this event was driven home to our first parents even before they were driven out of the Garden?

What about this from Jacob as we consider the power of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God?

Behold, my beloved brethren, I speak unto you these things that ye may rejoice and lift up your heads for ever because of the blessings which the Lord God shall bestow upon your children. For I know that ye have searched much, many of you, to know of things to come; wherefore, I know that ye know that our flesh must waste away and die; nevertheless, in our bodies we shall see God. Yea, and I know that ye know that in the body he shall shew himself unto those at Jerusalem, from whence we came, for it is expedient that it should be among them. For it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh and die for all men, that all men might become subject unto him. For as death hath passed upon all men to fulfill the merciful plan of the great Creator, there must needs be a power of resurrection. And the resurrection must needs come unto man by reason of the Fall, and the Fall came by reason of transgression. And because man became fallen, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord. Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement; save it should be an infinite atonement, this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more. Oh the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace. For behold, if the flesh should rise no more, our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the eternal God and became the Devil, to rise no more. And our spirits must have become like unto him and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.  Oh how great the goodness of our God, who prepareth a way for our escape from the grasp of this awful monster, yea, that monster death and hell, which I call the death of the body and also the death of the spirit! And because of the way of deliverance of our God, the Holy One of Israel, this death of which I have spoken, which is the temporal, shall deliver up its dead, which death is the grave. And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its dead, which spiritual death is hell. Wherefore, death and hell must deliver up its dead. And hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the resurrection of the Holy One of Israel. (2 Nephi 9:3 - 12, NC 2 Nephi 6 pars. 2 - 4)

As the time for the sacrifice approached in the Savior's mortal life He declared to His disciples that He would now go to Jerusalem and be delivered up to the leaders and be slain.

From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from you, Lord. This shall not be done unto you. But he turned and said unto Peter, Get behind me, Satan. You are an offense unto me, for you savor not the things that are of God, but those that are of men. (Matthew 16:21 - 23, NC St. Matthew 9 par. 2)

The Lord had taught in the Sermon on the Mount that it was improper to call another person a fool.

But here, the insistence of Peter that the Lord should avoid the sacrifice was so egregious an error that it justified the Lord in declaring that Peter was acting the role of Satan.

We read in Isaiah that it pleased the Lord or in other words it was the will of the Father, that He Christ should be bruised for our iniquities.

Yea, even doth not Isaiah say, Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He hath no form nor comeliness, and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men — a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from him. He was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
As the Lord hung lifted up He testified to those who were around that He was fulfilling what had been prophesied from the beginning.  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep, have gone astray — we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquities of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment. And who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgressions of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death. Because he had done no evil, neither was any deceit in his mouth; yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief. (Mosiah 14:4 - 12, NC Mosiah 8 pars. 3 - 4)

He was bruised for our iniquities but Amulek teaches the following.

And now behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world, for the Lord God has spoken it. For it is expedient that an atonement should be made. For according to the great plans of the eternal God, there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish. Yea, all are hardened, yea, all are fallen, and are lost, and must perish, except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made. For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beasts, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice, but it must be an infinite and an eternal sacrifice. Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now if a man murdereth, behold, will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, nay, but the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered. Therefore, there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world. Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice. And then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood. Then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall all be fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away. And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice. And that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal. And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name, this being the intent of this last sacrifice: to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance. And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircle them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice. Therefore, only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption. (Alma 34:8 - 16, NC Alma 16 par. 34)

All of these witnesses of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, of Him being lifted up and slain open up so many questions; Who was Christ? Who is Christ now? What is to come because of His attaining to the power of the resurrection? How did Christ become the Lamb? Is this part of ascension; to be lifted up? If this was the will of the Father what does the will of the Father mean for all of us? What eternal laws were satisfied in order to allow us all to continue on and not remain in the grave? How did Christ or rather what was it that Christ did that allowed His sacrifice to be able to atone for the sins of another (namely all of us)? Is this why we are taught so extensively in Lectures on Faith concerning sacrifice? Is this "how great things the Lord has done"? If He was doing what He had seen His Father do what does that mean for us if we become His children?

The questions go on and on.

One thing that strikes me from all of these witnesses is that the lifting up of the Lamb of God was and is indispensable for a Savior and for all of His infinite creations.

Even as He was lifted up He testified that he was fulfilling His Father's will.

And when the sixth hour came, there was darkness over the whole land, until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthani! — which is (being interpreted), My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And some of them who stood by, when they heard him, said, Behold, he calls Elijah. And one ran and filled a sponge full of vinegar and put on a reed and gave him to drink. Others spoke, saying, Let him alone. Let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down. (Mark 15;33 - 36, NC St. Mark 7 par. 26)

He was quoting the first part of one of the Psalms that testified of Him and His sacrifice.

My God, why have you forsaken me? My God, hear the words of my roaring. You are far from helping me. O my God, I cry in the daytime, but you answer not, and in the night season, and am not silent. But you are holy that inhabit the Heavens. You are worthy of the praises of Israel. Our fathers trusted in you. They trusted and you did deliver them. They cried unto you and were delivered. They trusted in you and were not confounded.  But I am a worm, and loved of no man, a reproach of man and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn. They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the Lord, that he would deliver him; let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.  But you are he that took me out of the womb. You did make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts. I was cast upon you from the womb. You were my God from my mother’s breasts.  Be not far from me — for trouble is near — for there is none to help. Many armies have encompassed me; strong armies of Bashan have beset me around. They gaped upon me with their mouths like a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax, it is melted in the midst of my inward parts. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue cleaves to my jaws, and you have brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have encompassed me, the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet. I may tally all my bones. They look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them and cast lots upon my vesture. But be not far from me, O Lord. O my strength, hasten to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword, my darling from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion’s mouth, for you have heard me speak from the secret places of the wilderness through the horns of the re’em. (Psalms 22:1 - 21, OC Psalms 22 pars. 1 - 4)

Those familiar with the Psalm would have understood the witness He was giving.

We have addressed some of the above questions and will eventually address them all, I believe, as we continue to look deeper and deeper into the mysteries of God contained in the Book of Mormon.

As inadequate as I know it is and knowing full well of my shortcomings, my sins, my rebellions, and my stain, I still feel compelled to give thanks to God and the Lamb that the Lamb was lifted up.

As the hymn states, I really do marvel that "He would descend from His throne divine to rescue a soul so rebellious and proud as mine that He would extend His great love unto such as I sufficient to own to redeem and to justify."

Saturday, June 20, 2020

The Power of the Lamb of God

1 Nephi 11:31, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 13

And he spake unto me again, saying, Look. And I looked and I beheld the Lamb of God going forth among the children of men. And I beheld multitudes of people who were sick and who were afflicted with all manner of diseases, and with devils and unclean spirits; and the angel spake and shewed all these things unto me. And they were healed by the power of the Lamb of God, and the devils and the unclean spirits were cast out.

The Stick of Joseph, 1 Nephi 3 par. 13

And he spoke unto me again, saying, Look. And I looked and I beheld the Lamb of Elohim going forth among the children of men. And I beheld multitudes of people who were sick and who were
afflicted with all manner of diseases, and with demons and unclean spirits; and the angel spoke and showed all these things unto me. And they were healed by the power of the Lamb of Elohim, and thedemons and the unclean spirits were cast out.

Above we have a description from Nephi of the Lord's mortal life.

Why is it that Alma, who saw the same vision, described the earthly advent of the mortal Lord as follows?

...Yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the spirit saith, Behold, the glory of the King of all the earth and also the King of Heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men... (Alma 5:49 - 52, NC Alma 3 par. 9)

How does what Alma declared above square with the words of the prophet Isaiah?

Yea, even doth not Isaiah say, Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He hath no form nor comeliness, and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men — a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from him. He was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (Mosiah 14:4 - 10, NC Mosiah 8 par. 3)

Hasn't it always been popularly taught that when the Lord came into mortality to dwell among us that He came without glory and that He will come with glory when He comes again?

Is it possible that what Nephi records reconciles Alma with Isaiah?

Again, I want to point out that in our little study group we believe that God intentionally put every word in the Book of Mormon to convey meaning in order to increase our understanding.

Why in Nephi's description of these events in the life of the mortal Lord does Nephi use the title "The Lamb of God"?

Of all the titles He possesses why use that one in this part of the vision?

What comes to mind when thinking about a lamb?

Is the symbol of the Lamb apt in describing what Alma declared that the Son of God comes in might, majesty, power, and dominion?

Do we consider that a lamb could possess might, majesty, power and dominion?

Do we consider that glory would shine forth from a lamb?

Can we look at the recorded life of the Lord and see Him, as a Lamb, possessing the above characteristics?

To begin our look, let's look at a newly revealed account of the life of Christ from the apostle John the beloved.

As an aside, I would invite you to consider what was covered in the previous post, "Knowest Thou the Condescension of God?" to see how totally appropriate it was for Christ's Mother to instruct Him on what to do.

On the third day of the week, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his followers were invited guests at the marriage. And when the wedding party wanted more wine, his mother said to him, They have run out of wine. Jesus replied, Mother, why are you talking to me about it? The time for me to provide sacramental wine has not yet arrived. But his mother instructed the servants, Whatever he tells you to do, follow through with it. There were six waterpots made of stone that were used for ceremonial purification in religious observances, each containing twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus instructed the servants, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he said, Now remove some and take it to the host. And they took it to him. When the host of the wedding tasted the ceremonial water, it had been converted to wine. But he did not know the source that converted the water, unlike the servants who recognized the Source. The host of the feast called for the bridegroom, and praised him using a proverb, saying, Careful men introduce their plans using the best wine, and later, when their followers are drunk, then their worst — but you have brought us better wine than at the start. This was a sign confirming his role as the Messiah that was performed by Jesus in Cana of Galilee. It was a demonstration of authority over both the elements and ordinances of salvation. Those who recognized this as a sign of his authority were awed as they considered it was him present among them. (Teachings and Commandments, Section 171, The Testimony of St. John 1 pars. 15 - 17)

Was this event a sign of the might, majesty, power, and dominion that the Lamb of God possessed?

Was this a glorious work?

Who were the individuals who witnessed the sign, recognized the Source, and were awed by Him being in their presence?

Are servants considered important in this world?

Does this world view a servant's status as a status of having anything of beauty that they should desire that status?

Did Christ demonstrate might, majesty, power, and dominion by possessing authority over the elements and ordinances of salvation?

What about these next two events?

And again he entered into Capernaum after many days, and it was noised abroad that he was in the house. And immediately many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive the multitude, no, not so much as about the door. And he preached the word unto them. And they came unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, who was borne of four people. And when they could not come near unto him for the crowd, they uncovered the roof where he was. And when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, your sins are forgiven you. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, Why does this man thus speak blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately, when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why do you reason these things in your hearts? Is it not easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Your sins are forgiven you, than to say, Arise and take up your bed and walk? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins, he said to the sick of the palsy, I say unto you, arise and take up your bed, and go your way into your house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all, insomuch that they were all amazed. And many glorified God, saying, We never saw the power of God after this manner. (Mark 2:1 - 12, NC The Gospel According to St Mark 1 pars. 10 - 11)

What might, majesty, power, and dominion is demonstrated in both healing the body and forgiving sins?

Is it a glorious work to forgive sin and heal the body?

Early in the morning, he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him, and he sat down and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery. And when they had set her in the middle of the people, they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us that such should be stoned, but what do you say? This they said testing him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down and with his finger wrote on the ground. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle of the temple. When Jesus had raised up himself, and saw none of her accusers and the woman standing, he said unto her, Woman, where are those your accusers? Has no man condemned you? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. And the woman glorified God from that hour, and believed on his name. (John , NC The Testimony of John 6 pars. 10 - 11)

What might, majesty, power, and dominion is demonstrated by refraining from condemning someone who is clearly guilty of a wrong?

Is it a glorious action to refuse to condemn?

Consider the following. It was part of a revelation from God on the definition of "mutual agreement."

When the definition was given, it was accompanied by the realization the Lord could have disputed every day of His life with someone. He deliberately chose to not contend. He was not an argumentative personality... the Lord’s example is to refrain from disputing, as He did. When confronted, He would respond, but He did not go about picking a fight with others. He responded. The only exception was when He went up to Jerusalem to be slain. Then He went into the seat of Jewish power and authority to throw it down and provoke their decision to finally judge, reject and crucify Him. He, and not they, controlled that timing. His provocation at that time was a deliberate act on His part because His “time had come,” and His sacrifice needed to be made. ("Discernment, Part 2", Podcast 52, Denver Snuffer Podcast, January 13, 2019)

Except for when Christ had to provoke the rulers in order to have them finally be enraged enough to take Him and crucify Him at the appointed time, did Christ ever confront, argue with, or belittle anyone?

What might, majesty, power, and dominion is required to be a peacemaker, to bless them that curse you, to pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you?

What might, majesty, power, and dominion is required to not be an argumentative personality when you are right?

Are these actions glorious actions?

We could go on but hopefully the above is sufficient to demonstrate the principle.

Are any of these actions taken by the Lord considered by this world to be representative of might, majesty, power, and dominion?

What does all this mean for me?

What can I possibly gain by reading a description of and understanding a little of what Nephi and many others saw?

A couple of things come to mind right off.

1) If Christ is the Great Exemplar, is what Nephi saw being communicated to me in order for me to follow The Lord's example?

Consider this.

Nephi saw multitudes of people who were sick and afflicted with all manner of diseases and with devils and unclean spirits.

Are there still in the world today multitudes of people who are sick and afflicted with all manner of diseases and with devils and unclean spirits?

In my sphere of influence, do I come into contact with any of these people?

Do I have opportunities in my daily walk to assist to heal, to assist to cast out devils and unclean spirits?

Although, I cannot forgive sin, in my daily walk can I forgive other's sins and trespasses against me?

Do I have opportunities in my daily walk to refrain from condemning others, to refrain from disputing and arguing with others even if I happen to be right, to pray for those who may abuse me and persecute me?

Although I am unable to perform the above actions to the same degree the Lord performed them can I still in the least degree reflect His glory, His might, His majesty, His power, and His dominion by my actions and works of faith among my family and neighbors; all who are in my sphere of influence?

If I am allowed to perform a labor of service to my fellow man, to alleviate suffering and to share light and joy, would not that labor be accomplished by the power of the Lamb of God just as much now as it was when He was on the earth?

Isn't any labor to save and to bless performed by the power of the Lamb of God?

If I become a servant, like Christ, will I be able to recognize and be in awe of His authority over the elements and ordinances of salvation?

2) Christ is both the Lion and the Lamb.

I believe that the title Lamb of God is used wittingly here by Nephi.

I believe that all things require a balance and just as the Lord possesses the characteristics that are aptly symbolized by the Lamb He also possesses the characteristics aptly symbolized by the Lion.

The actions of the Lord during His mortality display the qualities of the Lamb, in the demonstration of His might, majesty, power, and dominion.

I believe that the Lord even now extends all of these blessings, as the Lamb, to anyone who humbly and meekly approaches Him with real intent.

However, I also believe from scriptures that this mortal life is the time appointed unto us to approach the Lamb and if we do not take the opportunity to do so then because of justice we must appear before Christ as the Lion.

And now, I speak also concerning those who do not believe in Christ. Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation, behold, when the Lord shall come? Yea, even that great day when the earth shall be rolled together as a scroll and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Yea, in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God, then will ye say that there is no God? Then will ye longer deny the Christ? Or can ye behold the Lamb of God? Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws? Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and a just God under a consciousness of your filthiness before him than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell. For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you. O then, ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord. Cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day. (Mormon 9:1 - 6, NC Mormon 4 par. 6)

As we look at the above scripture we can see clearly that the Lord even then is not condemning but because of justice, if we waste our probation and do not approach Him, we will be left to view our own deficiencies and filth before a just and holy Christ. We will condemn ourselves and thereby face the Lion.

I agree with the following statement.

The Lord is affable, but He is not gregarious. He is approachable. He is not aloof. He is patient and He is willing to guide and willing to teach. He is intelligent, but He not overbearing. He is humble and approachable in His demeanor, even though His power is absolutely undeniable. Therefore, He is both a Lamb and a Lion. If you come to Him in the day He offers redemption to you, you will be coming to the Lamb. But if you wait for His coming in judgment, you are waiting on the Lion, and you will not like what you will see. (Forty Years in Mormonism, #7 - Christ: The Prototype of the Saved Man, Denver Snuffer, pages 241 - 242)

I am certain there are many more things that can and should have come to my mind over and above these two things as I consider Nephi's description of the Lord's mortal life, and I hope one day to come to better recognize and understand those many other things.

However, for now, I glory in what Nephi was allowed to share with us concerning the Lord.

I do believe all of the witnesses of the Lord and His life. I believe that we are given these witnesses in mercy that we may believe on the Son of God, Jesus Christ, and be saved.

Saturday, June 6, 2020

The Ministry of Angels

1 Nephi 11:30, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 12

And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying, Look. And I looked, and I beheld the Heavens open again, and I saw angels descending upon the children of men, and they did minister unto them.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 3 par. 11

And it came to pass that the angel spoke unto me, saying, Look. And I looked, and I beheld the Heavens open again, and I saw angels descending upon the children of men, and they did minister unto them.

There is a part of the paragraph of the preceding post that I would like to present for further consideration a little further on. It is the part where Nephi states, "And I also beheld twelve others following him." but we will continue here with the ministration of angels.

One thing that I hope comes through in this blog as I ask questions and share my present understanding of things is that I am not declaring that what I presently understand must be true or right.

I consider that until I actually experience the things that are occurring in the Book of Mormon for myself that I am unable to speak with authority on any matter.

What I am sharing and asking questions about constitute, as I have said before, ideas that I presently believe are true, ideas that make sense to me, ideas that are delicious to me, ideas that have brought me increased light and understanding, ideas that cause me to ask more and more questions, ideas that have, by their compelling nature, inspired me to act.

I hope that will always be the case.

I agree with what has been taught that even though my understanding is exceedingly limited and flawed that I can still be diligently obedient to what the Lord in His mercy has given and He can fix my understanding.

I believe that He wants me to look into these things. I believe that He wants every man, woman and child to look into these things.

With these things that I share I want only to invite and persuade people to, in a thoughtful patient way, look into these matters themselves contained right before us in the Book of Mormon.

Why right smack dab in the middle of showing Nephi concerning the Lord and His mortal life and ministry does the angel show Nephi the ministry of angels?

Why is Nephi's vision ordered this way?

Is the ministry of angels so important that it requires attention here?

The following is from the prophet Mormon.

It is a discussion on the ministry of angels and how that ministry is related to faith.

And now my brethren, how is it possible that ye can lay hold upon every good thing? And now I come to that faith of which I said I would speak, and I will tell you the way whereby ye may lay hold on every good thing. For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ, and in Christ there should come every good thing. And God also declared unto prophets by his own mouth that Christ should come. And behold, there were divers ways that he did manifest things unto the children of men which were good, and all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise, men were fallen and there could no good thing come unto them. Wherefore, by the ministering of angels and by every word which proceeded forth out of the mouth of God, men began to exercise faith in Christ; and thus by faith they did lay hold upon every good thing, and thus it was until the coming of Christ; and after that he came, men also were saved by faith in his name. And by faith they become the sons of God.

And as sure as Christ liveth, he spake these words unto our fathers, saying, Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, behold, it shall be done unto you. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, hath miracles ceased because Christ hath ascended into Heaven? And hath sit down on the right hand of God to claim of the Father his rights of mercy which he hath upon the children of men? For he hath answered the ends of the law, and he claimeth all those who have faith in him; and they who have faith in him will cleave unto every good thing. Wherefore, he advocateth the cause of the children of men. And he dwelleth eternally in the Heavens.

And because he hath done this, my beloved brethren, hath miracles ceased? Behold, I say unto you, nay; neither have angels ceased to minister unto the children of men. For behold, they are subject unto him, to minister according to the word of his command, shewing themselves unto them of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness. And the office of their ministry is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfill and to do the work of the covenants of the Father which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him; and by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the holy ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men. And Christ hath said, If ye will have faith in me, ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me. And he hath said, Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, and have faith in me, that ye may be saved.

And now, my beloved brethren, if this be the case, that these things are true which I have spoken unto you — and God will shew unto you with power and great glory at the last day that they are true — and if they are true, have the day of miracles ceased? Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the holy ghost from them? Or will he so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved? Behold, I say unto you, nay. For it is by faith that miracles are wrought, and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men. Wherefore, if these things have ceased, woe be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name. Wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also, and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made. (Moroni 7:20 - 38, NC Moroni 7 pars. 4 - 7)

From the very beginning, Adam and Eve, who was sent to give them understanding concerning the command they were obeying to offer sacrifice?

For anyone who has been through an LDS temple endowment, who are Adam and Eve waiting for?

Who are "true" messengers from the Father?

If we are to consider ourselves as if we were respectively Adam and Eve then who should we be waiting for?

Mormon taught that by the ministering of angels, as well as every word that proceeded forth from the mouth of God, men began to have faith in Christ.

Does that mean that "faith" is inseparably connected with the ministry of angels?

Mormon declared, "...it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men. Wherefore, if these things have ceased, woe be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name. Wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also, and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made."

That is a very serious statement isn't it?

By who's will do the angels minister unto the children of men?

Can the angels (true messengers) be conjured or summoned by us?

Can we or should we request according to our own will that angels be sent to minister to us?

By God's will who is it that the angels are sent to minister to?

What does it mean to be of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness?

If they show themselves to those of strong faith, how do we move from belief to "faith"?

What happened with Adam and Eve?

And Adam called upon the name of the Lord, and Eve also, his wife; and they heard the voice of the Lord from the way toward the Garden of Eden speaking unto them, and they saw him not, for they were shut out from his presence. And he gave unto them commandment that they should worship the Lord their God and should offer the firstlings of their flocks for an offering unto the Lord. And Adam was obedient unto the commandments of the Lord. And after many days, an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying, Why do you offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him, I know not but the Lord commanded me. And then the angel spoke, saying, This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father who is full of grace and truth. Wherefore, you shall do all that you do in the name of the Son. And you shall repent and call upon God in the name of the Son for ever more. (Moses 5:4 - 8, OC Genesis 3 pars. 2 - 3)

Is this following the pattern that Mormon described?

Did Adam and Eve first hear the voice of God giving them commandments?

Were those words that proceeded forth out of the mouth of God?

Were they diligently obedient to the command even though they did not understand why they were obeying it?

Does "many days" mean weeks, months, years, decades; how long were Adam and Eve diligently obedient to the commands of God?

I have heard it taught, and I believe it, that many generations passed; Adam and Eve had grandchildren and great-grandchildren before the angel was sent to give them understanding of why they were sacrificing.

Are the scriptures words that have proceeded forth from the mouth of God?

Am I able to hear God's voice speaking to me and giving me commandments for me?

If I am diligently obedient for "many days", whatever time that would entail, to the commands of God (not the commands of men) to me through the scriptures and by hearing His voice as He speaks to me personally, even if I do not understand why He has commanded me to do something, will I move from "belief" to "faith" like Adam and Eve?

Is it diligent obedience to God's commands for many days what would bring me to the point where I would have a firm mind in every form of godliness?

If I am a person of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness, why would the angels need to declare repentance to me?

What would I gain from communication with angels?

How would that bring me to God and cause me to repent?

How did Adam and Eve or anyone else for that matter gain anything important from communication with angels?

The Prophet Joseph stated,

The Hebrew Church "came unto the spirits of just men made perfect, and unto an innumerable company of angels, unto God the Father of all, and to Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant." What did they learn by coming to the spirits of just men made perfect? Is it written? No. What they learned has not been and could not have been written. What object was gained by this communication with the spirits of the just? It was the established order of the kingdom of God: The keys of power and knowledge were with them to communicate to the Saints. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.325)

Nephi declared,

Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do. (2 Nephi 32:3, NC 2 Nephi 14 par. 1)

Who speaks the words of Christ?

Who's words are we to feast on because they will tell us all things what ye should do?

Is it possible that the answer to both of the above questions is the angels?

Are all things what we should do associated with keys of power and knowledge that pertain to the established order of the kingdom of God?

And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom. He who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory." (D&C 88:21-22, Teachings and Commandments Section 86 par. 3)

The established order of the kingdom of God (the law of Christ, the law which sanctifies), which any individual must have information about and live according to those principles in order to be saved in that kingdom, cannot be communicated mortal to mortal. The Prophet Joseph said they are not written. They must be communicated to the Saints (revealed) by the angels. They are the words of Christ we are to feast upon after entering into the way.

But how does what the angels have to give to good people of firm faith in Christ relate to those good people repenting?

The Hebrew word for repentance is "shuv" (I think pronounced shube).

If I understand correctly, in Hebrew "shuv" literally means to turn around or face another direction or used in context to turn around and face God.

If an individual who has already developed strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness receives from the angels that which man cannot teach, the established order of the kingdom of God, which allows them to move even more in the direction of God aren't they ever turning towards God or "repenting"?

Do we have an example of this type of "repentance"?

Abraham speaks a little concerning himself at the beginning of the book of Abraham.

...having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge...and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir,..."(Abraham 1:2, Teachings and Commandments, Section 145, the Book of Abraham 1 par. 1)

Is it possible that repentance or turning to face God has everything to do with what Abraham did by gaining greater and greater knowledge to go from a follower of righteousness to a greater follower of righteousness?

When an individual voluntarily submits to the will of the Lord in the scriptures are they repenting and turning to face God?

Do they become a follower of righteousness and receive knowledge at this point?

Is it possible that once God has proven the individual faithful in the line and precept they have received from scripture God will begin to reveal His ways that cannot be written in scripture neither is it lawful for man to utter by sending His angels, true messengers, to teach these things?

The ways of God or the order of God's kingdom cannot be written remember.

As an individual responds and follows what they are given by revelation from the angels are they repenting more?

Are they turning, even more, to face God to follow the established order of His kingdom?

Are they becoming greater followers of righteousness and desiring greater knowledge?

If we become strong in faith and firm in our minds in every form of godliness so that we qualify to be ministered to by the angels, according to the will of God, and then we feast upon the words they are sent to deliver, will we find ourselves at some point ready to come back into the presence of the Lord?

If we look at the record of the brother of Jared coming back into the presence of the Lord don't we learn from the Lord Himself that that is what it means to be redeemed from the fall?

If we don't at some point come back into the presence of the Lord in mortality, like the brother of Jared and many many others, does that mean that we have not been redeemed?

Would that be like unto being in a situation where there had been no redemption made?

Remember what Mormon said?

Wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also, and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made.

According to what Mormon taught, is it possible to be redeemed without the ministry of angels?

Can any individual have revealed to them the established order of the kingdom of God: The keys of power and knowledge that are necessary for an individual to enter into in order to be a part of the kingdom of God without this ministry?

What about "unbelief"?

Mormon declared that if the ministry of angels ceases it is because we find ourselves in a state of unbelief.

What constitutes "unbelief"?

I agree with what the glossary of terms in the Teachings and Commandments states about "unbelief".

As used in the Book of Mormon, it means one does not understand and has not accepted true doctrine. The word unbelief means to accept false doctrine or to have an incomplete and inaccurate understanding of correct doctrine. Unbelief is often used in conjunction with losing truth, forsaking doctrine, and “dwindling.” The phrase dwindling in unbelief is the Book of Mormon’s way to describe moving from a state of belief, with true and complete doctrine, to a state of unbelief, where the truth has been discarded. Miracles end because men dwindle in unbelief.

Is it possible for our traditions or for the commandments of men to create a situation of "unbelief" where we find ourselves unable to develop "faith"?

There is so very much concerning this subject and there are so many scriptural examples of this ministry among men, women, and children in the scriptures.

I wonder if the indispensable nature of this ministry is what qualified this subject to be recorded in Nephi's vision at this point.