Arise and Get Thee Into the Mountain

1 Nephi 17:4 - 10, NC 1 Nephi 5 par 13 - 15

And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yea, even eight years in the wilderness. And we did come to the land which we called Bountiful, because of its much fruit and also wild honey; and all these things were prepared of the Lord that we might not perish. And we beheld the sea, which we called Irreantum, which (being interpreted) is many waters.
And it came to pass that we did pitch our tents by the seashore. And notwithstanding we had suffered many afflictions and much difficulty, yea, even so much that we cannot write them all, we were exceedingly rejoiced when we came to the seashore; and we called the place Bountiful because of its much fruit.
And it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had been in the land Bountiful for the space of many days, the voice of the Lord came unto me, saying, Arise and get thee into the mountain. And it came to pass that I arose and went up into the mountain and cried unto the Lord. And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto me, saying, Thou shalt construct a ship after the manner which I shall shew thee, that I may carry thy people across these waters. And I said, Lord, whither shall I go that I may find ore to molten that I may make tools to construct the ship after the manner which thou hast shewn unto me? And it came to pass that the Lord told me whither I should go to find ore, that I might make tools.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 5 pars. 13 - 15

And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yes, even eight years in the wilderness. And we did come to the land which we called Bountiful, because of its much fruit and also wild honey; and all these things were prepared of yhwh that we might not perish. And we beheld the sea, which we called Irreantum, which (being interpreted) is many waters.
And it came to pass that we did pitch our tents by the seashore. And even though we had suffered many afflictions and much difficulty, yes, even so much that we cannot write them all, we rejoiced exceedingly when we came to the seashore; and we called the place Bountiful because of its much fruit.
And it came to pass that after I, Nefi, had been in the land Bountiful for the space of many days, the voice of yhwh came unto me, saying, Arise and get you into the mountain. And it came to pass that I arose and went up into the mountain and cried unto yhwh. And it came to pass that yhwh spoke unto me, saying, You shall construct a ship after the manner which I shall show you, that I may carry your people across these waters. And I said, yhwh, where shall I go that I may find ore to molten that I may make tools to construct the ship after the manner which you have shown unto me? And it came to pass that yhwh told me where I should go to find ore, that I might make tools.

It is interesting to me to consider how the Lord in His wisdom prepares things to nourish His children as they are obedient to Him and cooperate with Him as He goes about doing His work to fulfill the promises He has made to the ancient fathers.

My present understanding is that Lehi's migration was a fulfillment of a promise that was made to Joseph who was sold into Egypt through his father Jacob (renamed Israel by the Lord) in a final blessing.

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well, whose branches run over the wall. The archers have severely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him; but his bow remained in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob (from there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel), even by the God of your father who shall help you, and by the Almighty who shall bless you with blessings of Heaven above, blessings of the deep that lies under, blessings of the breasts and of the womb. The blessings of your father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills. They shall be on the head of Joseph and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren. (Genesis 49:22 - 26, OC Genesis 12 par. 29)

My understanding is that Lehi was a descendant of Joseph and Lehi's branch ran over the wall to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills (the Americas).

And now Joseph, my last born whom I have brought out of the wilderness of mine afflictions, may the Lord bless thee for ever, for thy seed shall not utterly be destroyed. For behold, thou art the fruit of my loins, and I am a descendant of Joseph who was carried captive into Egypt. And great were the covenants of the Lord which he made unto Joseph. Wherefore, Joseph truly saw our day. And he obtained a promise of the Lord that, out of the fruit of his loins, the Lord God would raise up a righteous branch unto the house of Israel, not the Messiah, but a branch which was to be broken off, nevertheless to be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, that the Messiah should be made manifest unto them in the latter days in the spirit of power unto the bringing of them out of darkness unto light, yea, out of hidden darkness and out of captivity unto freedom. (2 Nephi 3:3 - 5, NC 2 Nephi 2 par. 2)

His family, like his ancestor Joseph, was separate from their brethren; having left the land of Jerusalem to cross the many waters.

The record that Lehi's righteous descendants left is calculated to save the rest of the House of Israel by breaking into pieces the image that Nebuchadnezzar saw; all of the corrupt influences permeating the entire world which began with the kingdom of Babylon; which influences still hold sway today. 

Since the Lord obviously gave this promise to Joseph through his father Jacob at least a millennia before the promise was put in motion, when did the Lord begin to prepare the land of Bountiful for Lehi's group so that they would not perish?

Was the preparation of Bountiful begun when the promise was given?

How did the Lord keep the land Bountiful from becoming completely overrun by others before Lehi's company arrived?

I have seen some evidence that persuades me that there were others living in the land Bountiful when Lehi's group arrived but am I correct in my understanding of the record that there were not great multitudes of people at that time in that area?

Why these questions?

What other promises has the Lord made to the original Fathers that are yet to be fulfilled?

For the sake of the promises to the fathers will I labor with you as a people, and not because of you, for you have not yet become what you must be to live together in peace. If you will hearken to my words, I will make you my people and my words will give you peace. Even a single soul who stirs up the hearts of others to anger can destroy the peace of all my people. Each of you must equally walk truly in my path, not only to profess, but to do as you profess. (T&C 157 par. 19)

What other things has the Lord prepared to nourish an obedient group of believers who desire to cooperate with the Lord as He goes about doing His work now?

What about the land where Zion will be established?

The very day all the prophets have look forward to, from the beginning of the days of Adam
down till now, (as we looked at in Centerville) are upon us. You doubt God can bring this to
pass? You doubt what I have been talking about since we began in Boise, and have now arrived
here? If God can send someone to declare these things to you, in the confidence and the faith and
the knowledge that I'm speaking to you on His errand, and I can do it in this room, in this
building housing a casino, in this city built on gambling and desperation, salvation comes to you
today by the word of God. You doubt God cannot make a holy place somewhere that has not
been trodden under the foot of the Gentiles? You doubt that God cannot bring to pass His work
in culminating the ages? Have the faith of a grain of mustard seed, because it is coming, it is
going to happen, and if you lack the faith, you will not be invited. (Forty Years in Mormonism, Lecture 8, "A Broken Heart and a Contrite Spirit", Denversnuffer.com, Downloads, pg. 274)

These words from the Lord were spoken as the Lord was again beginning to extend His hand again the second time to the Gentiles in order to recover His house the House of Israel.

Where is this place that God has kept that will become a holy place and has not been trodden under the foot of the Gentiles?

My present understanding is that it will require work and effort by those who would dwell there to cause it to be a fruitful place but it has been prepared nonetheless.

When did the Lord first prepare this land?

From the days of Adam when the promise was originally made?

What things must be completed in order for the Lord's promises to the original Fathers to be vindicated?

What work will a cooperative group of individuals be willing and required to do in order to have the blessing of working alongside the Lord?

If I understand it correctly, this all applies to right here and right now in world history so it concerns me if I desire to have the blessing of being involved in the Lord's work and if I desire to live so that I might be invited to go to a place of peace with my family.

How long is "many days"?

Would the Lord be aware of how long it would take, or in other words how much time would be appropriate, for the group to recover from "many afflictions and much difficulty, yea, even so much that we cannot write them all"?

Was the Lord in a hurry to get Nephi to build a ship?

Is the Lord in a rush to get His work done?

I used to believe so.  I really viewed in my mind that the flight of Lehi and his family from Jerusalem all the way to the Americas was a frantic push, required by the Lord, only interrupted by the wanderings in the wilderness due to disobedience.

My present understanding is completely opposite.

I believe the following.

I think the “Answer to the Prayer for Covenant” is the Lord pleading with us to take the time to talk through our differences. There is nothing in those words of counsel that require us to quickly resolve matters. Quite the opposite. The “Answer” is filled with instruction to us about the process, leaving the result to be obtained eventually—through a respectful process, no matter how much time may be needed. To the extent the Lord cares about time at all, He warns us against “haste.” ("The Religion of the Fathers," Denver Snuffer, 27 Mar. 2021, pg. 43)

My present understanding of the new revelation titled "Answer to Prayer for Covenant", found in the Teachings and Commandments section 157, is that it contains many commandments given to whoever comprises the group of people today who the Lord is working with to bring about His purposes in vindicating His promises to the early Fathers.

I believe now that the Lord is very serious about His work being done with a willing heart but not in haste which He declared brings pestilence.

Is this in any way related to what King Benjamin declared here?

...And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order, for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize. Therefore, all things must be done in order... (Mosiah 4:26 - 30, NC Mosiah 2 par. 6)

If such is the case, what constitutes doing things in wisdom and order?

I don't believe that the Lord is okay with purposely dawdling or wasting the time He gives to accomplish a work.

He declared the following to those who were in Nauvoo concerning the building of the Nauvoo temple.

For a baptismal font there is not upon the earth, that they my saints may be baptized for those who are dead; for this ordinance belongs to my house and cannot be acceptable to me, only in the days of your poverty wherein you are not able to build a house unto me. But I command you, all you my saints, to build a house unto me, and I grant unto you a sufficient time to build a house unto me, and during this time your baptisms shall be acceptable unto me. But behold, at the end of this appointment, your baptisms for your dead shall not be acceptable unto me. And if you do not these things, at the end of the appointment you shall be rejected as a church with your dead, says the Lord your God. For verily I say unto you that after you have had sufficient time to build a house unto me, wherein the ordinance of baptizing for the dead belongs, and for which the same was instituted from before the foundation of the world, your baptisms for your dead cannot be acceptable unto me, for therein are the keys of the Holy Priesthood ordained that you may receive honor and glory. And after this time, your baptisms for the dead by those who are scattered abroad are not acceptable unto me, says the Lord. For it is ordained that in Zion, and in her stakes, and in Jerusalem — those places which I have appointed for refuge — shall be the places for the baptisms for your dead. (D&C 124:29 - 36, T&C 141 par. 11)

The sad history of Nauvoo is that they ran out the clock and did not complete the temple in the sufficient time that was given.

They were moved out of their place.  The Lord rejected the church with their dead just as He said He would.

So how did the Lord determine what was sufficient time?

Please consider the following.

There are no private lives. Every life counts. Your private devotions are more important than your public notice. The salt which preserves may be unknown, likely is unknown, to most people. But if you are the salt, then your private life of devotion to the Lord is saving the lives of many others. The angels want to begin the harvest. They are impatient to begin reaping and cutting down the wicked now. (D&C 86: 5.) There is only time given because of a few who deserve more time to grow in faith before the harvest begins. (D&C 86: 6-7.) Your growth is all that is keeping the harvest from beginning now. Therefore, how you proceed has consequences far beyond your own life.
When wheat is ripe it will be protected. When tares are ripe they will be burned. But the tender plants worthy of preservation are the only ones allowed more time. (D&C 86: 4.) I advocate for them and realize how tenuous a position humanity itself is in at present. But you are the ones in the balance and for whom time is granted. How much longer no one knows, but your sins are not private. Your repentance is critical to all of creation. Do not think your life is your own. All of us have a share in your good works. ("3 Nephi 12:13," Denversnuffer.com, 8/Oct./2010)

Does the Lord measure "sufficient time" by the actions of some few tender plants that are developing into wheat?

Should this be something I consider very seriously as I look at my own repentance or lack of it?

Does the Lord know that this life brings setbacks and is full of failures that are all a part of the mortal condition?

Do these things, the failures and the setbacks, count against those who have been given "sufficient time"?

What about the following?

There is a process that is underway. People are increasingly accusing, opposing, and fighting with one another without good cause. It is as if they are submitting themselves to listen to obey the spirit of Satan (or the spirit of strife, envy, jarring, accusing). That course is not going to change. I hope it may plateau for a season. There are things we have to do, and we need something other than chaos and warfare, in order to accomplish the things that we need to achieve. But I believe when the command is given, that we’re going to have to act with alacrity if we are going to be able to fulfill the covenants and the obligations that have been promised by God and handed to us to do. (The Book of Mormon Holds the Covenant Pattern for the Full Restoration, Denver C. Snuffer, Jr., 22 September 2019, pg. 27)

What does it mean to act with alacrity when the command is given?

Does that represent haste or hurry?

Should I feel fear or a need to rush when I consider the term alacrity?

Please consider the following,

We’re not going to arrive where we need to arrive if we perceive ourselves as unequal, if we think of ourselves as greater and lesser, if we don’t think of ourselves as simply common servants, inadequate as we may be, to a Lord who loved and sacrificed Himself for our redemption. He is worthy. We can do our best and we can make a lot of mistakes along the way. Joseph did his best and it just didn’t work out. But what would have happened if the people, in July of 1840 when no commandment had yet been given, rose up and with alacrity decided that they were going to labor for the accomplishment of the task that Joseph was telling them was coming? What would have happened had the money raised and donated for the temple not been diverted by the temple committee to their own purposes? What would have happened if the lumber sent down from the Wisconsin mission been used for the construction of the temple rather than being diverted for the homes of the leading citizens? What would have happened if instead of God requiring yanking on the reins to pull the bit in the mouth of the horse of the restoration, what would have happened if all that was needed was for the reins to be lightly put on the neck of the horse of the restoration, to guide it where it needed to go? Horses are so sensitive that when a fly lands on their skin they can twitch to remove it. The people of the restoration are nowhere near as sensitive to what God would have them do, then or now, as is a horse. ( Remembering the Covenants, Denver Snuffer, 4 August 2018, pg. 6)

If we look at alacrity in the context of the above statement, doesn't it represent more of a cheerful willingness to respond to God's commands than a rushed response to God's command?

Is it possible that the fear associated with a rushed response to the Lord's commands is the root of causing pestilence?

If such were the case, would that be related to what the Lord declared here?

And now verily I say unto you that as I said that I would make known my will unto you, behold, I will make it known unto you, not by the way of commandment, for there are many who observe not to keep my commandments. But, unto him that keeps my commandments, I will give the mysteries of my Kingdom, and the same shall be in him a well of living water springing up unto everlasting life. And now behold, this is the will of the Lord your God concerning his saints — that they should assemble themselves together unto the land of Zion, not in haste, lest there should be confusion, which brings pestilence. (D&C 63:22 - 24, T&C 50 par. 6)

Is it possible that the "sufficient time" the Lord gives is whatever time is necessary for the Lord to determine if there are sufficient tender plants worthy of preservation?

Is it possible that "sufficient time" is whatever time is necessary for those tender plants, who respond with alacrity, to pass through whatever failures and setbacks this mortal existence incurs to reach the point where they become wheat and are able to cooperatively work alongside the Lord as He completes His work to vindicate His promises to the Fathers?

If the Lord is going about to do His work now, at this very time in the history of the world, should such thoughts be of critical importance to me personally?

Should I be ever asking myself, Am I working daily works that qualify me to be a tender plant acting with alacrity?

If I, by my actions, qualify as a tender plant, responding with alacrity, will I be given "sufficient time" to complete whatever the Lord commands me to do personally without a need for me to run faster than I have the strength or a need for me to feel fear?

Is it possible for tender plants acting with alacrity in responding to the commandments of the Lord to be filled with full confidence and to be at peace regardless of what is happening all around them?

I have wondered it the command that Nephi was given after the many days to "arise and get thee into the mountain" is part of what Nephi declared here?

...And upon the wings of his spirit hath my body been carried away up on exceeding high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things — yea, even too great for man — therefore I was bidden that I should not write them. (2 Nephi 4:17 - 25, NC 2 Nephi 3 par. 7)

We have already addressed the subject of these exceedingly high mountains in this previous post An Exceedingly High Mountain

I wonder how many times the Lord visited and taught Nephi in such places?

This is what the Lord has declared about such places.

But know also that I can do my work at any time, for I have sacred space above, and can do my work despite earth and hell. The wickedness of men has not prevented my will, but only kept the wicked from what they might have received. (T&C 157 par. 40)

During such an event Nephi is given the command by the Lord to build a ship.

Is it because Nephi had always responded to the commandments of the Lord with alacrity that he had the confidence to build a ship and only felt to ask where to go to find ore to construct the tools to build the ship?

Did Nephi feel confident that he had "sufficient time" to build the ship?

When Nephi went "into" the mountain the record states that he "cried" unto the Lord.

What am I to learn from that event?

What does it mean to cry unto the Lord?

Is it the same as praying?

The following is from the Glossary of Terms found in the back of the Teachings and Commandments.

There is a difference between praying and crying to God. A petitioner who cries comprehends his desperate and lowly position. It is used eleven times in the Ether chapters to describe the brother of Jared.1 Amulek’s sermon to the Zoramites advises them eight times to cry unto God (see Alma 16:35).2 In these examples the petitions to God are not called “prayer,” but are called “crying” to Him.3Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you (Alma 16:35). For I pray continually for them by day, and mine eyes water my pillow by night because of them. And I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry (2 Nephi 15:1). ("Cry Unto the Lord," Glossary of Gospel Terms, Teachings and Commandments)

I believe the above.

My present understanding from the record is that Nephi comprehended his desperate and lowly position.

I believe that anyone who is shown the reality of God's great unfathomable work comes to that understanding.

Consider the following.

And it came to pass that Moses looked and beheld the world upon which he was created. And as Moses beheld the world, and the ends thereof, and all the children of men who are and who were created, of the same he greatly marveled and wondered. And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon him, and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth. And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before he did again receive his natural strength like unto man. And he said unto himself, Now for this once I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed. But now my eyes have beheld God — but not my natural eyes, but my spiritual, for my natural eyes could not have beheld, for I should have withered and died in his presence. But his glory was upon me and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him. (Moses 1:8 - 11, OC Genesis 1 par. 2)

I also believe that anyone who has been moved upon by the Holy Spirit after hearing the message of God sent to them by an authorized messenger understands their own nothingness.

As an example.

And it came to pass that when Aaron saw that the king would believe his words, he began, from the creation of Adam, reading the scriptures unto the king: how God created man after his own image, and that God gave him commandments, and that because of transgression, man had fallen. And Aaron did expound unto him the scriptures from the creation of Adam, laying the fall of man before him, and their carnal state, and also the plan of redemption which was prepared from the foundation of the world, through Christ, for all whosoever would believe on his name. And since man had fallen, he could not merit anything of himself. But the sufferings and death of Christ atoneth for their sins, through faith and repentance, etc., and that he breaketh the bands of death that the grave shall have no victory, and that the sting of death should be swallowed up in the hopes of glory. And Aaron did expound all these things unto the king. And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said, What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his spirit that I may be filled with joy? That I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom that I may receive this great joy. But Aaron said unto him, If thou desirest this thing, if thou will bow down before God — yea, if thou repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest.
And it came to pass that when Aaron had said these words, the king did bow down before the Lord upon his knees, yea, even he did prostrate himself upon the earth, and cried mightily, saying, O God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God, and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me? And I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead and be saved at the last day. And now when the king had said these words, he was struck as if he were dead. (Alma 22:12 - 18, NC Alma 13 pars. 9 - 10)

So, I believe that I must ask myself this question.  

Do I truly understand my own nothingness and my desperate situation?

Can I ever look at a time in my life where I have felt this way?

Is this fearfulness; to understand my nothingness and my desperate situation?

How can I come to the point where I can "cry" unto God?

Is this also something that ought to be on my mind continually?

If I come to the point where I am able to "cry" unto the Lord, would that qualify me as a tender plant, at that moment in time, worthy of preservation?

Would it be incumbent upon me to live my life in a way so as to retain that understanding?

How would I do that?

Can I find examples of that in the scriptures?

Is coming to the point of being able to "cry" to the Lord a way for me to eliminate fear from my life?

Is being able to be in a situation where I can constantly "cry" unto the Lord a situation that will allow me "sufficient" time to cooperate with and work alongside the Lord while He goes about working His works?

My present understanding is that the record is literally pouring out all of these things for our consideration.

The Commandments of God Must Be Fulfilled

 1 Nephi 17:1 - 6, NC 1 Nephi 5 pars. 11 - 14

And it came to pass that we did again take our journey in the wilderness; and we did travel nearly eastward from that time forth. And we did travel and wade through much affliction in the wilderness, and our women bare children in the wilderness. And so great were the blessings of the Lord upon us that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of suck for their children and were strong, yea, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings.

And thus we see that the commandments of God must be fulfilled. And if it so be that the children of men keep the commandments of God, he doth nourish them, and strengthen them, and provide ways and means whereby they can accomplish the thing which he has commanded them. Wherefore, he did provide ways and means for us while we did sojourn in the wilderness.

And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yea, even eight years in the wilderness. And we did come to the land which we called Bountiful, because of its much fruit and also wild honey; and all these things were prepared of the Lord that we might not perish. And we beheld the sea, which we called Irreantum, which (being interpreted) is many waters.

And it came to pass that we did pitch our tents by the seashore. And notwithstanding we had suffered many afflictions and much difficulty, yea, even so much that we cannot write them all, we were exceedingly rejoiced when we came to the seashore; and we called the place Bountiful because of its much fruit.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 5 pars. 11 - 14

And it came to pass that we did again take our journey in the wilderness; and we did travel nearly eastward from that time forth.  And we did travel and wade through much affliction in the wilderness,
and our women bore children in the wilderness. And so great were the blessings of yhwh upon us that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of milk for their children
and were strong, yes, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings. 

And thus we see that the mitzvot of Elohim must be fulfilled. And if it so be that the children of men keep the mitzvot of Elohim, he does nourish them, and strengthen them, and provide ways and means by which they can accomplish the thing which he has commanded them. Wherefore, he did provide ways and means for us while we did sojourn in the wilderness. 

And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yes, even eight years in the wilderness. And we did come to the land which we called Bountiful, because of its much fruit and also wild honey; and all these things were prepared of yhwh that we might not perish. And we beheld the sea, which we called Irreantum, which (being interpreted) is many waters.

And it came to pass that we did pitch our tents by the seashore. And even though we had suffered many afflictions and much difficulty, yes, even so much that we cannot write them all, we rejoiced exceedingly when we came to the seashore; and we called the place Bountiful because of its much fruit.

I would like to consider these paragraphs from Nephi's record together in this post.  With them together, for me personally, they form an important context.

I would also like to add in for consideration, either in this post or the next, the last part of the preceding paragraph from 1 Nephi 5 par. 10

...the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them and did chasten them exceedingly. And after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord, they did turn away their anger and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

Is it possible that this statement from Nephi, And thus we see that the commandments of God must be fulfilled, is in any way related to The works, and designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught, for God does not walk in crooked paths, neither does he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither does vary from that which he has said; therefore, his paths are straight and his course is one eternal round. (D&C 3:1 - 2, T&C 2 par. 1) ?

Given the Lord's statement "the purposes of God cannot be frustrated neither can they come to naught",

or Nephi's statement "thus we see that the commandments of God must be fulfilled", if it is related to the Lord's statement, how can we declare that there is always agency at play in the lives of those who are involved in the day to day living of bringing about the "purposes" or "commandments" of God?

Do we see such a possible paradox in action in the times and travels of Lehi and his family?

If so, is there anything further that ought to be considered in relation to such a paradox?

What about the additional statement Nephi made concerning the matter?

 And if it so be that the children of men keep the commandments of God, he doth nourish them, and strengthen them, and provide ways and means whereby they can accomplish the thing which he has commanded them.

This is why I wanted to include a portion of the previous paragraph from the Book of Mormon.

I wanted to consider if what Nephi said about Laman and Lemuel's repentance related to what Nephi declared concerning God nourishing Lehi's group on their journey and that God's commandments must be fulfilled.

Nephi declared that it was only after Laman and Lemuel's repentance following the Lord speaking many words to chasten them that the Lord saw fit to provide food for them again so that they did not perish.

This brings up some questions for me because if I understand the record correctly this is the second mentioned time when repentance was required in order to obtain food.

1) Did Laman and Lemuel hear the actual voice of the Lord speaking to them and chastening them?

If so is this an escalation, not in a good way, of what the Lord decides He must condescend to do in order to drive the point home that they need to repent?

Is this one of the times Nephi is referring to when he speaks the following to Laman and Lemuel?

...Yea, ye have heard his voice from time to time, and he hath spoken unto you in a still, small voice, but ye were past feeling, that ye could not feel his words. Wherefore, he has spoken unto you like unto the voice of thunder, which did cause the earth to shake as if it were to divide asunder... (1 Nephi 17:43 - 47, NC 1 Nephi 5 par. 21)

Should I consider that Nephi shared this as a warning for me?

I believe that the answer to this is yes.

Should I look inside and consider the times the Lord has spoken to me in a still, small voice?

I believe the answer is yes to this as well.

What does it mean to "feel" the Lord's words?

This is a hard one for me.

Does everyone "feel" the Lord's words in the same way?

I don't know.

How would I come to know how to "feel" the Lord's words?

I am still working on this one.

When something, a teaching or a command, comes across as delicious to me is that similar to what Nephi declared about "feeling" the Lord's words?

On what occasions in scripture has the Lord determined it was necessary to speak with a voice of thunder?

Why not do it all the time; why only in specific circumstances?

If the Lord is unable to reach me with a still, small voice and so He then determines to condescend to speak with the voice of thunder does that create more of a situation where condemnation rests on me?

2) How does such an event relate to still allowing Laman and Lemuel to exercise their agency?

If this happens to be one of the times when the Lord spoke to them with the voice of thunder, how is it to be determined that Laman and Lemuel had a choice in the matter?

This is a serious question for me.

I have sometimes wondered how anyone in a culture, where I can see from the scriptural record of Laman and Lemuel, that they believed in the scriptures and were a couple of times persuaded by the scriptural narrative to move forward to accomplish the commandments of God how they would have had the ability to choose a different course after hearing God with a voice of thunder.

I believe it to be so; that they always were allowed to act with agency.  I trust it to be so.  I just don't understand it how that works.

I have wondered the same thing about Alma the younger; having the angel appear to him along the way which astounded him, if I understand it correctly, to the point of him remaining unconscious so to speak.

3) What would have happened if Laman and Lemuel had not responded?

Isn't it curious that the entire group of Lehi, during this event, is affected by the actions of Laman and Lemuel?

The Lord does not seem to be providing a way for Nephi and others to leave the rebellious and continue on without them, if I understand the record correctly.

Am I to assume that the entire group would have perished and the world-altering migration of Lehi's group would have ended right there at that point?

I believe so, if I understand the record correctly.

Wasn't the same principle at play on the ship?

Is it possible to determine from the record that the entire group of Lehi would have been lost at sea if Laman and Lemuel had not repented there for what they had done at that time?

I remember during the events of the recovery of the brass plates Nephi and his brothers were "required", so to speak, to stick together through the entire exercise to be able to return together to their father with the brass plates.

Was that following the same principle?

Was there a covenant extended by God to the entire group that obligated them to succeed together or fail together?

Has God ever done something, such as extending a covenant, that obligates a group in that way?

Salvation is individual. There is only individual salvation and no such thing as collective salvation. While I accept this as true, there is something else that is equally true: God wants “people” to collectively be His. In the revelations of July 14, 2017 and October 4, 2018 received from God (those are in the Teachings and Commandments as sections 157 and 176), the emphasis has been on “people.” Both responses by the Lord have gone beyond individual salvation to focus on people, Zion, and the New Jerusalem... People claim they have kept the covenant, but such claims cannot possibly be true. God’s covenant is for and about “people”—His people. It is not possible for an individual to keep the covenant. Everybody rises together, or everybody falls together. The covenant can only be kept as a community. Individuals acting alone can never accomplish what is required of the group... I cannot keep the covenant. You cannot keep the covenant. Only we can keep the covenant... Only we can keep the covenant. Only those who keep the covenant together can establish a new civilization with God’s holy House at its center ("Civilization", Denver Snuffer, 21/Apr./2019, pg. 1, 4, 31, 32)

How would the commandments of God have been fulfilled if Laman and Lemuel had not responded and repented?

What if the entire company of Lehi had perished, what then?

Is it possible that the Lord might have led Mulek and those who were with him to discover the brass plates, buried in the desert, as they fled to the promised land in a similar fashion that the people of Limhi found the gold Jaredite record among the deceased Jaredite people?

Would such preparation of having a second group fleeing Jerusalem at a proximate time as Lehi's group be similar to having Nephi prepare two records in anticipation of a person, Martin Harris, using his agency later in the future to lose the first record?

If the above is not the case, but agency is always in play, even though the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, how did God know that Laman and Lemuel would respond sufficiently for the migration to continue?

I believe the following statement.

Patience is very hard to summon when you're stirred up to anxiety—“Oh, my God, my God, my God!!”—over something that your God has control over. He defeated an invading Assyrian army using fleas. He fed the Israelites who were tired of manna with quail that flew in to be feasted upon. The God of Nature is not troubled by what troubles you. And the God of Nature is probably nothing more than bemused at how you're acting in this moment of confusion and dread. Our Lord is unflappable and affable. And He's not dancing around, doing a pee-pee dance because He's afraid of what's happening today. He has absolute confidence in the ultimate outcome, and it's going to be exactly as He said it would be. (Equality Living Waters Ranch Retreat Denver C. Snuffer, Jr. Challis, ID 5 September 2021, pg. 4)

 

I also believe the following.

"Being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God," Why does God have foreknowledge of these things? Why does God know that, if He gives His trust to such persons they will be true to it? Why does God know these are the very people who will not break His trust in them? Why does God have such foreknowledge? His foreknowledge is not based upon conjecture but proof. It is not based upon merely hope, it is based upon God’s knowledge of them. He will never ask soft lead to do what He knows will require iron to endure. Therefore He chooses a suitable instrument based upon His foreknowledge that has been "prepared from the foundation of the world." 

And what does God foreknow about them? He knows this: "On account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place." That is, He knows they exercised exceeding faith and based on that performed good works before the foundation of this world. This was in the first place. This was long ago on some other rung of the ladder of progression. It was long ago, a great while in the past, when they were previously “proven.”
"In the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such." Did you get that? They have already been the beneficiaries of a “preparatory redemption” given to them before. They were redeemed before this, so they could be reclaimed for this ministry. They had chosen good rather than evil, and exercised great faith. They qualified to become something greater and minister to others so they, too, could look forward to their redemption by the “Son of God.” But now we find ourselves here, in this cycle of creation, and once again the game’s afoot.  Once again we are left to choose between good and evil. Once again we are asked to exercise great faith and to rise up. We are once again in a position in which it is possible to qualify here and now for what will come after. You have the opportunity before you today. Choose good. 

At this moment you have the opportunity to exercise exceeding faith. Choose faith.  You have the opportunity at this moment, in this dark place where we presently reside, to be identified by your good works, to become proven to God. Then, for the next cycle of creation, His foreknowledge of you will include the record of your exceeding faith and good works from here. (Forty Years in Mormonism, #7 - Christ: The Prototype of the Saved Man, Denver Snuffer, Denversnuffer.com, Downloads, pg. 200)

Is it possible that all those who were engaged in the migration as part of Lehi's group were selected from the foundation of the world, some to prove and others to be proven herewith, by the experience of the migration and the hearing of God's words through Lehi and Nephi?

Was God's foreknowledge involved in having Laman and Lemuel and others be a part of Lehi's group so that they (their hearts) could be proven by the experience?

Paul stated the following concerning the times and habitations of everyone in the human family in this creation cycle.

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill and said, You men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are too superstitious; for as I passed by and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription: To the Unknown God. Whom therefore you ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God, who made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwells not in temples made with hands, neither is worshipped with men’s hands as though he needed anything, seeing he gives to all life, and breath, and all things; and has made of one blood all nations of men to dwell on all the face of the earth; and has determined the times before appointed and the bounds of their habitation, that they should seek the Lord if they are willing to find him. For he is not far from every one of us, for in him we live, and move, and have our being. As certain also of your own poets have said: For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold or silver or stone, engraved by art and man’s device. And the times of this ignorance, God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by him whom he has ordained; and he has given assurance of this unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:22 - 31, NC Acts 10 par. 14)

Did God's foreknowledge of Laman and Lemuel from previous cycles of creation allow them sufficient observation to be 100% confident that even if Laman and Lemuel ultimately rejected what was being offered to them that at the very least they would respond sufficiently for the migration to be completed?

Was it God's foreknowledge that informed them to set the times and bounds of the habitation of Laman and Lemuel at this time as members of Lehi's family?

Were Laman and Lemuel added upon by this experience?

If any of what I understand is correct, what would that mean for me or for anyone else for that matter?

Are there things being offered to me now and to everyone in the world, as part of a work God is doing, that we have the agency to accept or reject?

Was God's foreknowledge of us from previous creation cycles involved in Them setting our times and the bounds of our habitation to have our hearts proven during this time in the history of the world?

Are we willing to seek the Lord and willing to find Him now?

Just like with Laman and Lemuel, is our agency to ultimately reject what God is doing right now preserved?

Is it just like Lehi's group that no matter who ultimately rejects what God is offering, God's work will not be frustrated or as Nephi declared God's commandments must be fulfilled?

Would such a proposition mean that God has always provided sufficient inhabitants, according to Their foreknowledge, who are both here to prove and to be proven in order that the work will be completed no matter how many of those who are here to have their hearts proven either accept or reject what God is offering? 

Now, another question.

Did God "nourish" Lehi and his group by providing food for their families?

What about this part of Nephi's account?

And so great were the blessings of the Lord upon us that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of suck for their children and were strong, yea, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings.

Is it possible that God "nourishing" Their children is related to spiritual gifts?

Is the above event, recorded by Nephi, a description of a spiritual gift God bestowed upon Lehi and his group?

This type of event, if I understand it correctly, is reminiscent of another event in the Book of Mormon  record.

And now it came to pass that Amulon began to exercise authority over Alma and his brethren, and began to persecute him, and cause that his children should persecute their children. For Amulon knew Alma, that he had been one of the king’s priests, and that it was he that believed the words of Abinadi and was driven out before the king; and therefore he was wroth with him. For he was subject to king Laman, yet he exercised authority over them, and put tasks upon them, and put taskmasters over them. And it came to pass that so great were their afflictions that they began to cry mightily to God. And Amulon commanded them that they should stop their cries, and put guards over them to watch them, that whosoever should be found calling upon God should be put to death. And Alma and his people did not raise their voices to the Lord their God, but did pour out their hearts to him; and he did know the thoughts of their hearts.
And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came to them in their afflictions, saying, Lift up your heads and be of good comfort, for I know of the covenant which ye have made unto me. And I will covenant with this my people and deliver them out of bondage. And I will also ease the burdens which are put upon your shoulders, that even you cannot feel them upon your backs, even while you are in bondage. And this will I do that ye may stand as witnesses for me hereafter, and that ye may know of a surety that I, the Lord God, do visit my people in their afflictions. And now it came to pass that the burdens which were laid upon Alma and his brethren were made light; yea, the Lord did strengthen them, that they could bear up their burdens with ease, and they did submit cheerfully and with patience to all the will of the Lord. (Mosiah 24:8 - 15, NC Mosiah 11 pars. 8 - 9)

Was the supplying food for Lehi and his group so that they could eat a spiritual gift from God to them?

These are asking questions because I really don't have an answer.

I see in the scriptures that healing, which affects the temporary mortal body, is a spiritual gift.

What about other miraculous events that affect the temporal mortal body?

What about this event?

And Moses called unto all Israel and said unto them, You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land — the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles. Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. And I have led you forty years in the wilderness. Your clothes have not grown old upon you and your shoe has not grown old upon your foot. You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink, that you might know that I am the Lord your God. And when you came unto this place, Sihon the king of Heshbon and Og the king of Bashan came out against us unto battle, and we smote them. And we took their land and gave it for an inheritance unto the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to the half-tribe of Manasseh. Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that you may prosper in all that you do. (Deuteronomy 29:2 - 9, OC Deuteronomy 9 par. 1)

If I understand this correctly, their clothes and their shoes did not wear out and they were supplied with food and drink for forty years?

Are these things that pertained to and affected their temporal mortal bodies?

The reason I ask this question is that I have always been very circumscribed in what things I have viewed as spiritual gifts and I am beginning to wonder if I have passed over noticing or even scoffed at people and events in people's lives that I ought to have stopped and thought about and asked God if They were extending a spiritual gift.

Would such an attitude of thinking about and asking God about people and events in people's lives be in line with the following teaching?

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit all; for to one is given by the spirit the word of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge by the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another the gifts of healing by the same spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But all these work that one and the selfsame spirit, dividing to every man separately as he desires. (1 Corinthians 12:4 - 11, NC 1 Corinthians 1 par. 48) 

Should I have always been more liberal than I have been, in considering the "differences of administrations" and "diversities of operations"?

The truth is that I have never understood what the phrases "differences of administrations" and "diversities of operations" meant.

Have I missed opportunities to praise God and to stand in awe of Their liberality and mercy and extension of gifts among the human family because I was putting Them in a box, so to speak, in the ways that They were allowed to work by faith in Christ among the children of men?

I have been a pharisee for so long in my thinking.  I hope that I am beginning to break free of such hellish restraints.