True Knowledge and Losing Nephite Status

 1 Nephi 12:19 - 23, NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 18

And while the angel spake these words, I beheld and saw that the seed of my brethren did contend against my seed, according to the word of the angel. And because of the pride of my seed and the temptations of the Devil, I beheld that the seed of my brethren did overpower the people of my seed. And it came to pass that I beheld and saw the people of the seed of my brethren, that they had overcome my seed, and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land. And I saw them gathered together in multitudes; and I saw wars and rumors of wars among them, and in wars and rumors of wars I saw many generations pass away. And the angel said unto me, Behold, these shall dwindle in unbelief. And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief, they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim, 1 Nefi 3 par. 18

And while the angel spoke these words, I beheld and saw that the seed of my brothers did contend against my seed, according to the word of the angel. And because of the pride of my seed and the temptations of HaSatan, I beheld that the seed of my brothers did overpower the people of my seed. And it came to pass that I beheld and saw the people of the seed of my brothers, that they had overcome my seed, and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land. And I saw them gathered together in multitudes; and I saw wars and rumors of wars among them, and in wars and rumors of wars I saw many generations pass away. And the angel said unto me, Behold, these shall dwindle in unbelief. And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief, they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Is it possible for us to pause here and consider what Nephi is feeling as he witnesses the ultimate destruction of the nation of his descendants?

Haven't we all either been in situations or seen situations or even watched situations portrayed to us where there is a battle between good and evil or wrong and right or justice and injustice?

Don't we hope in our hearts that what is right, what is good, and what is just will prevail in the end?

Don't we desire ultimate happiness for all?

I do not claim to know what was going through Nephi's mind at this moment but is it possible that what he recorded following this vision is an indication of his heart being filled with deep sorrow at such an eventuality being shown to him?

And it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had been carried away in the spirit and seen all these things, I returned to the tent of my father. And it came to pass that I beheld my brethren, and they were disputing one with another concerning the things which my father had spoken unto them; for he truly spake many great things unto them which were hard to be understood save a man should inquire of the Lord. And they being hard in their hearts, therefore they did not look unto the Lord as they ought. And now I, Nephi, was grieved because of the hardness of their hearts, and also because of the things which I had seen, and knew they must unavoidably come to pass because of the great wickedness of the children of men. And it came to pass that I was overcome because of my afflictions, for I considered that mine afflictions were great above all because of the destructions of my people, for I had beheld their fall. (1 Nephi 15, NC 1 Nephi 4 par. 1)

What is entailed in being overcome by one's afflictions?

When one possesses the knowledge that Nephi possesses how can afflictions overcome them?

We talked about this before with Enoch and the depths of his feelings concerning the destructions and waste that the wickedness of men causes.

Is it possible that anyone who comes to the same level of knowledge as what Nephi has arrived to here feels just as deeply as Nephi sorrow at the suffering of all because of wickedness?

Is it possible that one of the effects of true knowledge is sorrow for the waste and destruction among men because of wickedness?

What would an individual who possesses true knowledge be willing to sacrifice in order to right the wrongs of the wickedness of others?

When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed; he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied; by his knowledge shall my righteous Servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong — because he hath poured out his soul unto death, and he was numbered with the transgressors, and he bare the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.(Mosiah 14:10 - 12, NC Mosiah 8 par. 5)

The above is Abinadi before the court of king Noah quoting Isaiah concerning Christ.

Is it possible that the phrase "by his knowledge shall my righteous Servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities", may also include as additional meaning to experiencing the iniquities of others the meaning of being willing to give Himself a sacrifice because of the knowledge He possesses? 

The Prophet Joseph declared the following.

All the religious world is boasting of righteousness; it is the doctrine of the devil to retard the human mind, and hinder our progress, by filling us with self-righteousness. The nearer we get to our heavenly Father, the more we are disposed to look with compassion on perishing souls; we feel that we want to take them upon our shoulders, and cast their sins behind our backs.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 241)

Is it possible that a sure sign of one who possesses true knowledge from heaven, like Nephi, is their real and unfeigned compassion, their deep feelings of sorrow, for perishing souls?

If we are to become like Christ then don't we necessarily have to progress in knowledge until we can like Christ become willing to give ourselves as infinite sacrifices because of our compassion for all others who would perish without our sacrifice; which desire to sacrifice comes it would appear from having true knowledge?

 And what constitutes the real difference between a saved person and one not saved is the difference in the degree of their faith — one’s faith has become perfect enough to lay hold upon eternal life and the other’s has not. But to be a little more particular, let us ask: Where shall we find a prototype into whose likeness we may be assimilated, in order that we may be made partakers of life and salvation? Or in other words, where shall we find a saved being? For if we can find a saved being, we may ascertain without much difficulty what all others must be in order to be saved — they must be like that individual or they cannot be saved. We think that it will not be a matter of dispute that two beings who are unlike each other cannot both be saved, for whatever constitutes the salvation of one will constitute the salvation of every creature which will be saved. And if we find one saved being in all existence, we may see what all others must be or else not be saved. We ask, then: Where is the prototype? Or where is the saved being? We conclude as to the answer of this question there will be no dispute among those who believe the Bible that it is Christ. All will agree in this, that he is the prototype or standard of salvation, or in other words, that he is a saved being. And if we should continue our interrogation, and ask how it is that he is saved, the answer would be, because he is a just and holy being. And if he were anything different from what he is he would not be saved, for his salvation depends on his being precisely what he is and nothing else. For if it were possible for him to change in the least degree, so sure he would fail of salvation and lose all his dominion, power, authority, and glory, which constitutes salvation. For salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power, and dominion which Jehovah possesses, and in nothing else, and no being can possess it but himself or one like him. Thus says John in his first epistle, 3:2,3 [1 John 1:13]: Behold, now we are the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be; but we know that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And any man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure. Why purify himself as he is pure? Because if they do not, they cannot be like him. (Teachings and Commandments, Section 110, Lectures on Faith, Lecture 7th par. 9)

If what the Prophet Joseph taught in Lectures on Faith is true, that to be a saved being is to be precisely what Christ is and nothing different, how is that achieved?

How long did it take Christ to come to possess the knowledge He possessed in order to be ready and willing to offer an infinite sacrifice to justify many?

Is such knowledge to be gained in a lifetime?  In two lifetimes?

What does the Prophet Joseph say?

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pgs.346 - 347)

When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 348)

If we look at what Joseph declared then did Christ "learn" how to become God by going from grace to grace, a small degree and capacity to a great one, and from exaltation to exaltation, until he had climbed up the ladder to His sacrifice?

Is the offering of oneself as an infinite sacrifice for all others a principle of exaltation?

If it is not all to be comprehended in this world then where beyond the grave and how long will it take to perform the great work and learn our salvation and exaltation?

Is it a sign that we are advancing in learning the principles of exaltation when we demonstrate true compassion on perishing souls as Nephi did?

What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 346)

Is this the pattern of salvation and exaltation?

The Prophet Joseph said the following.

Knowledge saves a man; and in the world of spirits no man can be exalted but by knowledge. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 357)

If an individual must be precisely like Christ in order to be saved or in other words to be exalted and they can only be exalted or saved by knowledge then doesn't that mean that anyone who really gets knowledge will be humbled by it and filled with compassion by the possession of it until they arrive, through the eons of time, at the point that Christ arrived at, through the eons of time, where they are able to declare as Christ declared that they will lay down their life as their Father did and take it up again?

Can we see in this a way to test if we are in possession of true knowledge?

Does true knowledge exalt a person because it humbles them?

What did Moses declare after he had seen his vision in the mount?

And it came to pass that Moses looked and beheld the world upon which he was created. And as Moses beheld the world, and the ends thereof, and all the children of men who are and who were created, of the same he greatly marveled and wondered. And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon him, and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth. And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before he did again receive his natural strength like unto man. And he said unto himself, Now for this once I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed. (Moses 1:8 - 11, OC Genesis 1 par.2)

If it is true that true knowledge humbles us and instills compassion in us then how should we consider the following?

No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood; only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned, by kindness and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul; without hypocrisy and without guile; ...(D&C 121:41 - 46, Teachings and Commandments, 139 par. 6)

If someone declares that they hold priesthood and what they declare causes us to feel pride or self righteousness then are they imparting true or pure knowledge?

If they are not imparting pure knowledge then do they really hold any priesthood at all?

There are some tremendous things to consider as we consider Nephi's reaction to seeing the destruction of the nation of his descendants.

There is another consideration as we look at what Nephi is recording here in this part of the vision.

If I understand correctly Nephi possesses sealing power which means that what he inscribed here on the plates was binding because it was done by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Again, our little study group believes that Nephi did not record anything on the plates he was not commanded to record.

How hard would it be for Nephi, feeling the affliction of the loss of his people, to inscribe those words on the plates knowing that they were binding words of prophecy?

We have an example in Enos of just how carefully one who holds sealing power speaks or records anything so as not to bind the Lord to something that would injure others.

And it came to pass that after I had prayed and labored with all diligence, the Lord said unto me, I will grant unto thee according to thy desires because of thy faith. And now behold, this was the desire which I desired of him: that if it should so be that my people the Nephites should fall into transgression, and by any means be destroyed, and the Lamanites should not be destroyed, that the Lord God would preserve a record of my people the Nephites, even if it so be by the power of his holy arm, that it might be brought forth some future day unto the Lamanites, that perhaps they might be brought unto salvation. For at the present, our strugglings were vain in restoring them to the true faith. And they swore in their wrath that if it were possible, they would destroy our records, and us, and also all the traditions of our fathers.(Enos 1:12 - 14, Enos 1 par. 3)

Enos ,who had been given the promise by the Lord that whatever he asked would be granted, after laboring long to arrive at what he wanted, carefully worded his request to the Lord; "if it should so be that my people the Nephites should fall into transgression, and by any means be destroyed, and the Lamanites should not be destroyed, that the Lord God would preserve a record of my people the Nephites, even if it so be by the power of his holy arm, that it might be brought forth some future day unto the Lamanites, that perhaps they might be brought unto salvation."

Enos was righteous and was most certainly acquainted with the prophecies and writings of Nephi and he knew that the Nephites would be destroyed eventually from the very records he was asking the Lord to preserve but in his request he carefully states, if it should be... and by any means... which does not bind the Lord to perform anything upon the people in the request except for preserving the records.

Would Nephi be any less careful with the sealing power than Enos?

Do we think that Nephi would have inscribed a binding prophecy concerning the destruction of his people on the plates unless he was commanded to by the Holy Ghost?

Would it be good to look seriously at what is going on here?

Is it not also important to consider what is going on with the Nephites at the time Nephi is viewing in his vision?

There is a podcast I would recommend to everyone; on the website denversnuffer.com in the podcast section.

It is Podcast 123, "Numbered Among".

In the podcast the following is shared concerning the events Nephi saw here in his vision.

Then in Alma, there's a prophecy that Alma gives explaining what he knows is going to happen to the Nephites and his descendants. He says, 

Then shall they see wars and pestilences, yea, famine and bloodshed, even until the people of Nephi shall become extinct. Yea, and this because they shall dwindle in unbelief and fall into the works of darkness, and lasciviousness, and all manner of iniquities. Yea, I say unto you that because they shall sin against so great light and knowledge, ...I say unto you that from that day, even into the fourth generation shall not all pass away before this great iniquity shall come. ...when that great day cometh, behold, the time very soon cometh that those who are now, or the seed of those who are now numbered among the people of Nephi, shall no more be numbered among the people of Nephi. But whosoever remaineth and is not destroyed in that great and dreadful day shall be numbered among the Lamanites, and shall become like unto them. (Alma 21:2 RE) 

So, the prophecy that Alma gives says that whatever remnant there may have been of Nephi that will exist after the great apostasy following four generations after Christ's visit among the Nephites, whoever's left is no longer a Nephite, but they are numbered among the Lamanites, even if they are descendants of Nephi. 

So, we get to Helaman, and in Helaman, the theme picks up again. He's describing where things are going to be headed, and as he says, 

...from one generation to another by the Nephites, even until they have fallen into transgression and have been murdered, plundered, and hunted, and driven forth, and slain, and scattered upon the face of the earth, and mixed with the Lamanites until they are no more called the Nephites, becoming wicked, and wild, and ferocious, yea, even becoming Lamanites. (Helaman 2:4 RE, emphasis added) 

So, you can change your identity. You can change your identity from being a Nephite into becoming a Lamanite. You can change your identity from being a Lamanite to being a Nephite. But more importantly, you can change your identity from being a Gentile into being of the house of Israel. 

Then we get to Christ and the events that occur at His visit with the Nephites, immediately preceding that. In the 30th year that they're reckoning time from in Third Nephi, 

It came to pass that those Lamanites who had [been] united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites, and their curse was taken from them (3 Nephi 1:11 RE). 

They were numbered among the Nephites and were called Nephites.

Why is this important for this conversation?

Doesn't this show that our actions really do matter in determining our status before the Lord?

The Pharisees considered that their status before God was determined because they were "children of Abraham" by blood.

John declared to them,

 Then said John to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, crying against them with a loud voice, saying, O generation of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come! Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, Abraham is our father, we have kept the commandments of God and none can inherit the promises but the children of Abraham; for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees. Every tree therefore which brings not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.(Luke 3:7 - 9, NC Luke 3 par. 5)

God today by covenant has established a way whereby we as Gentiles can be adopted into the House of Israel and therefore change our status before God by participating in authorized ordinances and performing godly works.

What Nephi saw concerning his seed and how he felt about what would befall them has so very much to do with things and events that are happening here and now to us.

My ability to communicate things that are so important from scripture is so weak.

I don't possess knowledge at this point in the journey to clearly declare truth and knowledge with power like Nephi did.

As I have mentioned before, I hope that others' skepticism of my present understanding of things from scripture will impart to anyone reading these things a desire to look into these matters for themselves in order to get their own understanding and be willing to show me the error of my ways.

I can only see good in sharing ideas, understanding, and insight from scripture with each other even if or maybe especially if they are differing ideas, understandings, and insights.

Beyond the Fourth Generation and Our Day

 1 Nephi 12:11 - 18 , NC 1 Nephi 3 par. 17

 And the angel said unto me, Look. And I looked and beheld three generations pass away in righteousness, and their garments were white, even like unto the Lamb of God. And the angel said unto me, These are made white in the blood of the Lamb because of their faith in him. And I, Nephi, also saw many of the fourth generation who passed away in righteousness. And it came to pass that I saw the multitudes of the earth gathered together. And the angel said unto me, Behold thy seed and also the seed of thy brethren. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the people of my seed gathered together in multitudes against the seed of my brethren, and they were gathered together to battle. And the angel spake unto me, saying, Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw, yea, even the river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are the depths of hell. And the mists of darkness are the temptations of the Devil which blindeth the eyes and hardeneth the hearts of the children of men and leadeth them away into broad roads, that they perish and are lost. And the large and spacious building which thy father saw is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men. And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God and Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the holy ghost beareth record from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and for ever.

The Stick of Joseph in the Hand of Ephraim 1 Nefi 3 par. 17

And the angel said unto me, Look. And I looked and beheld three generations pass away in righteousness, and their garments were white, even like unto the Lamb of Elohim. And the angel said unto me, These are made white in the blood of the Lamb because of their faith in him. And I, Nefi, also saw many of the fourth generation who passed away in righteousness. And it came to pass that I saw the multitudes of the earth gathered together. And the angel said unto me, Behold your seed and also the seed of your brothers. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the people of my seed gathered together in multitudes against the seed of my brothers, and they were gathered together to battle. And the angel spoke unto me, saying, Behold the fountain of filthy water which your father saw, yes, even the river of which he spoke; and the depths thereof are the depths of She’ol. And the mists of darkness are the temptations of HaSatan which blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men and lead them away into broad roads, that they perish and are lost. And the large and spacious building which your father saw is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men. And a great and a terrible gulf  divides them, yes, even the sword of the justice of the Elohe Kedem and Mashiach who is the Lamb of Elohim, of whom the Ruach HaKodesh bears record from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and for ever.

I find it rather timely that we are looking at Nephi's view of the final throes of the nation comprised of his, Nephi's, descendants at this point in the history of the Gentile nation of America.

I would like to return to a prophecy given September 2017 at the time God, for the first time in the latter days, offered a covenant to the Gentiles to allow them to be adopted into the House of Israel.

Immediately following the administration of the covenant this prophecy was declared.

Those who have entered faithfully into the covenant this day are going to notice some things. The spirit of God is withdrawing from the world. Men are increasingly more angry without good cause. The hearts of men are waxing cold. There is increasing anger and resentment of gentiles. In political terms, it’s rejection of white privilege. Language of scriptures gives a description of the events now underway and calls it the end of the times of the gentiles. This process with the spirit withdrawing, will end on this continent, as it did with two prior civilization in fratricidal and genocidal warfare. For the rest of the world, it will be as in the days of Noah in which, as that light becomes eclipsed, the coldness of men’s hearts is going to result in a constant scene of violence and bloodshed. The wicked will destroy the wicked. The covenant, if it is kept, will prevent you from losing light and warmth of heart as the spirit now steadily recedes from the world. The time will come when you will be astonished at the gulf between the light and truth you will comprehend and the darkness of mind of the world. Be charitable and patient and labor to reach others. They will judge you harshly, but nevertheless be kind to them. They are going to grow to fear you, but that’s only part of how darkness responds to light. Give them no reason to fear you. The time will come for us to gather, but between now and then, be leaven. Preserve the world. Be salt. Preserve the world, even if it hates you.(Closing Remarks, Covenant of Christ Conference, Egyptian Theater, Boise, Idaho, September 3, 2017 Denver Snuffer, Jr.)

With respect to what Nephi is viewing concerning the nation comprised of his posterity and applying this to our day I would like to focus a little on what Nephi recorded as follows.

Behold thy seed and also the seed of thy brethren. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the people of my seed gathered together in multitudes against the seed of my brethren, and they were gathered together to battle. And the angel spake unto me, saying, Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw, yea, even the river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are the depths of hell.

Mormon gives some commentary in 4th Nephi that is interesting and that leads us into what we are looking at.

And now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land, and that they had become exceeding rich because of their prosperity in Christ. And now in this two hundred and first year, there began to be among them those who were lifted up in pride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world. And from that time forth, they did have their goods and their substance no more common among them, and they began to be divided into classes. And they began to build up churches unto themselves to get gain, and began to deny the true church of Christ. (4 Nephi 1:23 - 26,NC 4 Nephi 1 par. 5)

Does the above commentary clearly demonstrate the principle that the Prophet Joseph taught below?

The moment we revolt at anything which comes from God, the devil takes power. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 181)

Is it possible that the wearing of costly apparel and all manner of fine pearls and fine things of the world is part of revolting at those things that come from God?

Is it possible that to be divided into classes is also a part of revolting at those things which come from God?

When the angel told Nephi ,"...the large and spacious building which thy father saw is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men..." , was the angel pointing out what Mormon commented on above?

Was it the vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men at that time that caused them to revolt at those things which came from God and allowed the devil to take power?

We looked at the great and spacious building in an earlier post and discussed how to avoid entry into it.

I am still of the same opinion now that I was when I addressed the great and spacious building in an earlier post that it is impossible to list all the ways to enter into the great and spacious building because they are diverse and they are so many that they cannot be numbered.

I still believe that the wise path is to simply focus on righteousness and become as a little child.

Nephi also records what the angel said concerning the mists of darkness.

the mists of darkness are the temptations of the Devil which blindeth the eyes and hardeneth the hearts of the children of men and leadeth them away into broad roads, that they perish and are lost.

Could the above be an apt description of what was further recorded in 4 Nephi?

And it came to pass that when two hundred and ten years had passed away, there were many churches in the land. Yea, there were churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did deny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness, and did administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been forbidden because of unworthiness. And this church did multiply exceedingly because of iniquity and because of the power of Satan, who did get hold upon their hearts. And again, there was another church which denied the Christ, and they did persecute the true church of Christ because of their humility and their belief in Christ. And they did despise them because of the many miracles which were wrought among them. Therefore, they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them. Nevertheless, and notwithstanding all these miracles, the people did harden their hearts and did seek to kill them, even as the Jews at Jerusalem sought to kill Jesus, according to his word. And they did cast them into furnaces of fire, and they came forth receiving no harm. And they also cast them into dens of wild beasts, and they did play with the wild beasts, even as a child with a lamb; and they did come forth from among them, receiving no harm. Nevertheless, the people did harden their hearts, for they were led by many priests and false prophets to build up many churches and to do all manner of iniquity. And they did smite upon the people of Jesus, but the people of Jesus did not smite again. And thus they did dwindle in unbelief and wickedness from year to year, even until two hundred and thirty years had passed away.  And now it came to pass in this year, yea, in the two hundred and thirty and first year, there was a great division among the people. And it came to pass that in this year, there arose a people who were called the Nephites, and they were true believers in Christ. And among them there were those who were called by the Lamanites: Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites. Therefore, the true believers in Christ and the true worshipers of Christ, among whom were the three disciples of Jesus who should tarry, were called Nephites, and Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites. And it came to pass that they who rejected the gospel were called Lamanites, and Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites. And they did not dwindle in unbelief, but they did willfully rebel against the gospel of Christ, and they did teach their children that they should not believe, even as their fathers from the beginning did dwindle. And it was because of the wickedness and abominations of their fathers, even as it was in the beginning. And they were taught to hate the children of God, even as the Lamanites were taught to hate the children of Nephi from the beginning. And it came to pass that two hundred and forty and four years had passed away, and thus were the affairs of the people. And the more wicked part of the people did wax strong, and became exceeding more numerous than were the people of God. And they did still continue to build up churches unto themselves and adorn them with all manner of precious things. And thus did two hundred and fifty years pass away, and also two hundred and sixty years. (4 Nephi 1:27 - 41, 4 Ne. 1:27-41)

When it is mentioned that Satan had power over the people, that the peoples' hearts were hardened, that the people were led by many priests and false prophets to do all manner of iniquity, that the people in general did smite upon the people of Jesus, that the people did dwindle in unbelief and wickedness from year to year and that there was finally a great division among the people; is that a detailed description of the Devil blinding the eyes and hardening the hearts and leading the children of men into broad roads to perish and be lost?

If we look in the glossary of terms we can read what it means to dwindle in unbelief.

When one prizes his or her errors and holds them as true (when they are not), one dwindles in unbelief. Unbelief is often used in connection with losing truth, forsaking doctrine, and therefore, “dwindling.” The phrase “dwindling in unbelief” is the Book of Mormon’s way to describe moving from a state of belief, with true and complete doctrine, to a state of unbelief, where the truth has been discarded. Miracles end because men dwindle in unbelief. (Glossary of Terms, "Dwindle in Unbelief", Teachings and Commandments)

If true and complete doctrine is lost then do the children of men perish?

What did Mormon say?

And now, my beloved brethren, if this be the case, that these things are true which I have spoken unto you — and God will shew unto you with power and great glory at the last day that they are true — and if they are true, have the day of miracles ceased? Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the holy ghost from them? Or will he so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved? Behold, I say unto you, nay. For it is by faith that miracles are wrought, and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men. Wherefore, if these things have ceased, woe be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name. Wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also, and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made. (Moroni 7:35- 38, NC Moroni 7 par. 7)

If the state of man is as though there had been not redemption made does that sound like a state of perishing and being lost?

Do we read in 4 Nephi that miracles ceased generally among the people after so many years?

Didn't Mormon state that a cessation of miracles was a sign of unbelief among a people?

The account in 4 Nephi also clearly states that those who became Lamanites and Lemuelites and Ishmaelites willfully rebelled against the gospel of Christ.

Does that statement clearly show a revolt against what has come from God?

With all of this as an introduction for how the Nephite and Lamanite nations arrived at the point where they experienced the depths of hell can we now look at their experience of being caught in the fountain of filthy water?

Mormon and Moroni were required to record the demise of the Nephite nation.

If we look at just one comment by the prophet Mormon concerning the Nephite and Lamanite nations can we see just how far they had fallen into the depths of hell?

 ... And it is impossible for the tongue to describe or for man to write a perfect description of the horrible scene of the blood and carnage which was among the people, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites. And every heart was hardened so that they delighted in the shedding of blood continually. And there never had been so great wickedness among all the children of Lehi, nor even among all the house of Israel (according to the words of the Lord), as were among this people. (Mormon 4:7 - 12, NC Mormon 2 par. 2)

Further on in the book of Moroni we read of Mormon's report to Moroni describing the horrid acts of rapine and cannibalism that occurred among the Nephites and Lamanites.

What I would hope that we could consider as we take all of this in are the words of Mormon to his son Moroni below.

 ... And now behold, my son, I fear lest the Lamanites shall destroy this people, for they do not repent. And Satan stirreth them up continually to anger one with another. Behold, I am laboring with them continually. And when I speak the word of God with sharpness, they tremble and anger against me. And when I use no sharpness, they harden their hearts against it. Wherefore, I fear lest the spirit of the Lord hath ceased striving with them. For so exceedingly do they anger, that it seemeth me that they have no fear of death. And they have lost their love one towards another, and they thirst after blood and revenge continually. And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation. For we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness and rest our souls in the kingdom of God.(Moroni 9:1 - 6, NC Moroni 9 par. 1)

Can we see in this statement of Mormon something similar to the prophesy given in September of 2017 concerning our nation?

Satan stirred up the Nephites continually to anger with one another.

In the prophesy we read, Men are increasingly more angry without good cause. The hearts of men are waxing cold. There is increasing anger and resentment of gentiles. In political terms, it’s rejection of white privilege.

Is there a parallel here?

If we look at the rioting and unrest of this past year is it possible to detect that very same spirit that was manifest among the Nephites at the time of Mormon and Moroni also being manifest in our nation today?

What did Mormon say concerning the spirit of the Lord among the Nephites?

Wherefore, I fear lest the spirit of the Lord hath ceased striving with them.

What does the 2017 prophecy state?

The spirit of God is withdrawing from the world.

Is there a parallel here between what Mormon described with the Nephite nation and our nation today?

What did Mormon say concerning the people of his day?

For so exceedingly do they anger, that it seemeth me that they have no fear of death. And they have lost their love one towards another, and they thirst after blood and revenge continually.

What doe we read in the 2017 prophecy concerning this nation?

This process with the spirit withdrawing, will end on this continent, as it did with two prior civilization in fratricidal and genocidal warfare. For the rest of the world, it will be as in the days of Noah in which, as that light becomes eclipsed, the coldness of men’s hearts is going to result in a constant scene of violence and bloodshed. The wicked will destroy the wicked.

Is there a parallel here between what Mormon and Moroni experienced and what is going on nowand what will happen very soon?

Did the Prophet Joseph see this coming?

I saw men hunting the lives of their own sons, and brother murdering brother, women killing
their own daughters, and daughters seeking the lives of their mothers. I saw armies arrayed against
armies. I saw blood, desolation, fires. The Son of Man has said that the mother shall be against the
daughter, and the daughter against the mother. These things are at our doors. They will follow
the Saints of God from city to city. Satan will rage, and the spirit of the devil is now enraged.
I know not how soon these things will take place; but with a view of them, shall I cry peace? No;
I will lift up my voice and testify of them. How long you will have good crops, and the famine be
kept off, I do not know; when the fig tree leaves, know then that the summer is nigh at hand.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 161)

As we look at what led the Nephite and Lamanite nations to the depths of hell can we not look at ourselves and see that we have revolted against the things given from God and therefore have given Satan power over us?

Was there a revolt against the things of God right from the beginning of the restoration?

And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received, which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation rests upon the children of Zion, even all, and they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon, and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say but to do according to that which I have written, that they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom. Otherwise, there remains a scourge and a judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion, for shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, verily I say unto you, nay. (D&C 84:54 - 59, T&C 82 par. 20)

Is unbelief mentioned in the church even at this early point?

If we are in a state of unbelief then aren't we in a state as if there had been no redemption made?

Isn't that a parallel to where the Nephites and Lamanites found themselves being blinded and their hearts hardened in unbelief ?

Aren't those the temptations or mists of darkness the angel mentions to Nephi?

Doesn't that have direct application to those of the restoration initiated by the Prophet Joseph?

As we talk about unbelief and hard heartedness among those who claim to be part of the restoration began by Joseph can we consider the Prophet Joseph's following statement as well?

Many men will say, “I will never forsake you,1 but will stand by you at all times.” But the
moment you teach them some of the mysteries of the kingdom of God that are retained in the
heavens and are to be revealed to the children of men when they are prepared for them they will
be the first to stone you and put you to death. It was this same principle that crucified the Lord
Jesus Christ, and will cause the people to kill the prophets in this generation.
Many things are insoluble to the children of men in the last days: for instance, that God should
raise the dead, and forgetting that things have been hid from before the foundation of the world,
which are to be revealed to babes in the last days.
There are a great many wise men and women too in our midst who are too wise to be taught;
therefore they must die in their ignorance, and in the resurrection they will find their mistake.
Many seal up the door of heaven by saying, So far God may reveal and I will believe. All men who
become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ will have to receive the fulness of the
ordinances of his kingdom; and those who will not receive all the ordinances will come short
of the fullness of that glory, if they do not lose the whole. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg. 309)

Is the above why the Prophet Joseph right close to his death stated to those in the church,

You don’t know me; you never knew my heart. No man knows my history. I cannot tell it: I shall never undertake it.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 361)

If the prophet Joseph was laid under a strict command to only impart according to the faith and diligence of the early saints then isn't the above statement very telling about their condition right before his death?

Has that condition improved or worsened?

In the glossary of terms we read the following concerning apostacy.

A deliberate, intentional, or willful rejection or refusal to accept what God offers to man; a rebellion. When mankind limits what they will permit God to reveal, setting boundaries to His teachings, they rebel. But that rebellion only limits themselves. Mankind, whether as a group or a single person, is either gaining (restoring) light and truth or losing (apostatizing) from light and truth. This world is a world of change. Nothing remains the same. Either growth or decay are at work everywhere. They are also at work within every person. One either searches out new truth — finds it, lives it, and thereby becomes restored to truth — or one backs away from it. If one is backing away, losing it, neglecting it, and discarding it, one is in the process of apostasy. With respect to God’s people, apostasy is always marked by a change of ordinances and breaking of the covenant. “In ancient times, apostasy never came by renouncing the gospel, but always by corrupting it…. The great apostasy in the time of the apostles was not a renouncing of faith but its corruption and manipulation.” (Teachings and Commandments, Glossary of Terms, "Apostacy")

Since Joseph have we backed away from truth Joseph taught?

Have we changed the ordinances?

Have we broken God's covenant?

My point is that wouldn't it be a more safe path for us to look inward and see that we have probably revolted against the things God has sent and therefore must turn to Him and accept what He offers or we must most assuredly end up in the very same predicament as the Nephites and Lamanites full of anger and thirsting for blood?

Shouldn't we look around at present circumstances and see that because we initially rejected and revolted against what God sent that Satan has gotten power over the whole nation?

Are we divided into classes like the Nephites?

Are we involved in the wearing of costly apparel and of the fine things of the world like the Nephites?

The account of 4 Nephi also mentions the establishment of the secret combinations among them as in days of old.

Do we see the existence of secret combinations in our nation today?

What hope do we have to escape the dire circumstances that are now in process?

We read above something that Mormon declared to Moroni that is very important.

And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation. For we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness and rest our souls in the kingdom of God.

I am not a Mormon or a Moroni.

I am however a believer in Jesus Christ.

I believe that the labor that I can perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay is to invite and exhort all to come to Christ through the Doctrine of Christ and partake of the new covenant God has established in this day.

As one who has partaken of the covenant I have an obligation to, Be charitable and patient and labor to reach others.

Anyone anywhere may get on to bornofwater.org and request the ordinance of baptism following the exact process Christ declared to the Nephites when He visited them following His resurrection.

Following authorized baptism one may partake of the new covenant God has established to gather in all who would be gathered like chicks under their wings.

I believe the words of the 2017 prophecy that state 

The covenant, if it is kept, will prevent you from losing light and warmth of heart as the spirit now steadily recedes from the world. The time will come when you will be astonished at the gulf between the light and truth you will comprehend and the darkness of mind of the world. Be charitable and patient and labor to reach others. They will judge you harshly, but nevertheless be kind to them. They are going to grow to fear you, but that’s only part of how darkness responds to light. Give them no reason to fear you. The time will come for us to gather, but between now and then, be leaven. Preserve the world. Be salt. Preserve the world, even if it hates you.

That is our hope.

God is working to vindicate His promises to the ancient Fathers.  

I believe that Nephi's record of what he saw concerning his seed here is critical for us as Gentiles in this present perilous time. 

Just as Nephi declared, And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God and Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the holy ghost beareth record from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and for ever.

I believe that the gulf that will divide those who will follow God in this nation and those who will not does comprise His justice of withdrawing His spirit.

As the prophecy states, The time will come when you will be astonished at the gulf between the light and truth you will comprehend and the darkness of mind of the world.

There is a sign that will be manifest on the 21st of this month, the winter solstice.

It is the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in the sky that will create a bright star.

I am sure that there is a more correct meaning of the sign than what I will share here but in my mind I feel that at this point of greatest darkness in history as symbolized by the winter solstice a rare bright light breaks forth bringing hope in the form of the work God is now undertaking among men as represented by the light of the conjunction of the two planets that occurs only rarely.

I have read that this sign will be visible to the entire world just as this work is now underway to invite all who will come to come from the four quarters of the earth to Christ and be saved.

Nephi's record is truly timely.